Have you ever wondered where we come from? Was that the topic of your search that brought you here?
Where do you think we are headed?
History repeats itself via obvious patterns. Not everyone recognizes them equally quickly.
I hope my video will speed up some processes:
The following post turned out well and is being constantly expanded with updates related to the origin and original spread of Rh negative blood and people:
English
Afrikaans
Albanian
Amharic
Arabic
Armenian
Azerbaijani
Basque
Belarusian
Bengali
Bosnian
Bulgarian
Catalan
Cebuano
Chichewa
Chinese (Simplified)
Chinese (Traditional)
Corsican
Croatian
Czech
Danish
Dutch
Esperanto
Estonian
Filipino
Finnish
French
Frisian
Galician
Georgian
German
Greek
Gujarati
Haitian Creole
Hausa
Hawaiian
Hebrew
Hindi
Hmong
Hungarian
Icelandic
Igbo
Indonesian
Irish
Italian
Japanese
Javanese
Kannada
Kazakh
Khmer
Korean
Kurdish (Kurmanji)
Kyrgyz
Lao
Latin
Latvian
Lithuanian
Luxembourgish
Macedonian
Malagasy
Malay
Malayalam
Maltese
Maori
Marathi
Mongolian
Myanmar (Burmese)
Nepali
Norwegian
Pashto
Persian
Polish
Portuguese
Punjabi
Romanian
Russian
Samoan
Scottish Gaelic
Serbian
Sesotho
Shona
Sindhi
Sinhala
Slovak
Slovenian
Somali
Spanish
Sudanese
Swahili
Swedish
Tajik
Tamil
Telugu
Thai
Turkish
Ukrainian
Urdu
Uzbek
Vietnamese
Welsh
Xhosa
Yiddish
Yoruba
Zulu
Very nice Mike ! I appreciate your candor and openness. As a B negative, I certainly “relate” to many of the characteristics that you describe. How much is shaped by ABO blood group and how much is shaped by Rh Neg is hard to figure out….but there is certainly something there. You continue to inspire me to search.
My pleasure, Richard, and likewise. You should have just received an email setting you up to comment without need of moderation. Please log in the next time you leave a comment to make sure it works. 🙂
Best,
Mike
Mike:
No email received…but I have just logged in. Please consider this as a “test comment”.
Richard
Richard, thank you. It may have wound up in your spam filter. The next comment of yours should go through without me moderating. Are you able to edit/delete your own comments when you’re logged in?
Mike
it looks like i can bulk delete my comments & perhaps others. i haven’t tried this. just looking around while logged-in, but i see no way to edit my own comments or remove them individually.
That’s odd. Can you also see pending comments awaiting approval?
“Where there is something there” is key to me. It’s not a drive to find out by all means necessary as such misdirection often leads to acceptance of misinformation. It is rather about staying on the track that is right and finding it… getting closer to the center. Then, everything falls into place. It saddens me to see so many Rh negatives sidetracked with “where there is nothing there” just to feel special/better. It is the few who take time to find out more about reality while others just follow someone else’s follies. My second step is “WHAT is there?”. 🙂
That’s where all of us come in.
I am right with you on that…and more than willing to work with you and others on the second step.
Richard
much focus, thought & effort from many others (other than myself) and perhaps many Rh(D) negs has gone toward creating, building maintaining, propagating large organizations – trans-generational structures – “laws” – books/recordings – worldviews – whether they are truth-full or not so much so. i see & understand the reasons for them doing this (along w/ having children, which again i have also not done). i just have never found any thing worth joining, championing, supporting & staying w/ it yet, except my own interests/fascinations/thoughts/insights & such & perhaps the group(s) of people related to me that come here.
another insight of mine fwiw — it is easier to destroy most things, than it is to create them — so, it’s important to be careful and give much thought when deciding to intentionally wreck something. institutions, well worn thought patterns and trans-generational cultural things are not easily destroyed. the Santa Claus/Father Christmas myth is just one simple example (the spirit of it is nice, and so too is the music and the art promoting it generally – but as an adult, most of the rest associated w/ this holy-day is annoying as hell).
it’s very important to seek/speak/be/live the “truth”/truth…in a sense becoming truth-full, but at the same time being wise enough/aware enough/having lived enough among others quite different from one’s own self to know how others may react/to know & have an idea of what other may do to you at any time over anything. weigh things, & decide your course/what you’ll do for yourself.
…or being too open/honest when one really doesn’t know the people one is near…because many of us have been screwed for being this way: nice, decent, fair, truthful, kind, thoughtful, considerate, helpful, trusting & so on. live & learn…wise-up and decide whether you are w/ the good/for goodness or not. even though some people/individuals do lots of intentionally rotten, harm-full, destructive things – this hasn’t stopped me from trying/seeking to be good & decent.
my goals: to live as satisfying a life as possible…to make things, this world & people better…as good as is possible, if others choose such. regardless of what anyone else does, i seek to be myself, do this well, make the most of it & things and so on.
heh, Mike: when your mind is full of other people, it gets kinda crowed in there doesn’t it?
i definitely seem to get along w/ Rh(D) negs better than i do w/ positives. among many other things & reasons – there are so few negs around me that i know of, that i do essentially nothing w/ anyone in & around my place & space in reality on this planet now.
I think the Neanderthals had it right, small groups. Small tribes, 25-40 people – good number. So, I figure sort of that could be a number for a core group of the right people. From there limited access extension. It’s about the core. Yes, you read me well. 🙂 But still I believe we need to reach more people. Who will and can reach us has to be limited, but in time it will also be more possible. As you may have noticed, the topic of Rh negative blood happens to be a magnet for all the wrong people, so there is a lot I want to do which takes more time than I would like it to, but if I rush, it will have the effect that readers will be led down the wrong roads by those who cannot wait to (mis)use my channel to do so.
Let me say it like this:
When it comes to the Rh negative blood factor, there is nothing more worth reading than content on this blog. Not because of the video I have made, but a combination between everything coming full circle and most of all the comments by you, Paul, Richard, Robin which resonate and carry realities unseen.
Everything is up for examination as it should be. I am completely about freedom and against censorship but have learned that this is only possible with the right people or the wrong ones will come and abuse the freedom by bullying others into submission. The fake illusion that Rh negatives believe to come from aliens is huge. A tiny percentage has gone that far away from their own minds and lost in belief. So my main thing is creating the protected environment in which everyone can freely express. Everyone a part of that core. The forum isn’t working. Too many people and too little serious action. I will focus on this and hope you are now able to make comments which automatically show up without the need to approve. If not, I will find out how to do it. 🙂
Mike
looks like my comments still need to be approved even when logged-in through WordPress (my name & email address are not required anymore)…complexities & intricacies…looks like i now have more options to provide information about myself if i want. perhaps it’s always been that way when logged-in to WordPress. just never used it much in my past. that could change.
Okay, I made a change and this should do it. Try one more time.
A lot of the battles I have been fighting for 10 years happen behind the scenes and you wouldn’t believe what all I have experienced doing this. What I have come to know about the inner workings of the world without inviting that knowledge. You cannot un-know.
i think i understand somewhat Mike. i created this blog/information/stock related investing page back in 2005 and added to the top part for many years: https://investorshub.advfn.com/NO-QUARTER-FOR-CORRUPTION-(Focussing-on-The-Fed-FRBS)-3319/ … learned and figured-out a lot in the following ~ 5 years i was most interested and involved w/ it. caught a lot of crap and grief from those i was apparently outing via knowledge/insight & reasoned understanding about things, while attempting to educate others there & elsewhere. deep down, there are some really serious troubling problems (from my pov) w/ the current dominant human created world systems, their direction, their purposes/goals and so on. freedom w/ accountability is rare. it seems to exist here. that’s good.
back in 2007-08, i think it was this meetup site: https://www.meetup.com/ that worked well to help get people in the USA and around me least, w/ similar interests, involved in doing some things together. it seems to be maybe a bit too localized. i think/feel maybe you, me and others are thinking along these lines. i know/believe all groups will likely be tracked (all internet/all electronic communications globally are captured & stored apparently also…so, it is obviously important to wise, wary & careful to some reasonable extent w/ what one seeks to express). regardless, seeking to bring the good Rh(D) negative people closer together somehow, however possible and by whatever way works best i think is a good idea and that should be done/worked on. i guess i’m interested in being involved and helping w/ things along these lines…and if i’m now able to post w/out you having approve my posts, well then – i’ll do what i can to not disappoint you nor take advantage of this privilege. i see challenging times ahead. i may not be alone in this assessment.
I became interested in genealogy in the past two years. I was adopted at birth and met my B+ birth mother and grandmother 35 years ago. I found I got the 0 negative from my Norwegian grandfather maternal and half royal Scottish lines and half Jewish roots….all from Davidic lines I believe…..the Torah says it all. As a child in the sixties I never knew my roots.
Being A- I can relate to the need to express myself for the benefit of others & it’s through the use of written words that I tend to get the most impact, it just seems to flow better.
At the moment I am in Australia (mentioned in your video)in a state with the most severe “lock down” laws in the world, Victoria. We are not allowed to hug, kiss, shake hands, talk without face protection or within 1.5m, we can only go outside to exercise (some places only 5km from home), essential shop at supermarkets only, work places are being shut down etc.
Today our “State of Emergency” has been extended for a further 12 month (total 18 months) or as media reports state, until an approved vaccine is “Strongly Encouraged” upon us through further personal restrictions.
Though I express myself, that expression is met with IMO unjustified public fear based on external information, I am starting to resign myself to just remain silent. What gives me comfort, is that within myself the intuition speaks “loudly though silently” that there will come a time “My tribe will be found”.
At the moment though calm, I feel like I am in an endless sea with a storm approaching that nobody seems to “feel” coming, except but a few.
(On another note & perhaps “off topic” I would be interested in members thoughts).
Something that interest me for obvious reasons relates to the COVID vaccine and takes into consideration the fact I have never been affected with any viruses circulating through the community even though those RH Positive people close to me are often severely bed ridden.
If the vaccines target the virus receptors/genes or entry points (such as ACE2) and are commonly tested on the Rhesus Monkey, would it be possible for the vaccines to also “Pass through” a Rhesus negative person without effect (ie nothing for the vaccine to bind to)?
The above is only a thought of mine that is in development & may have no scientific basis what so ever.
Just a quick add onto my previous post, the below article was just released in Australia explaining proposed treatments targeting COVID-19 entry points.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/health/2020-08-31/antibody-treatments-explained-covid-19-coronavirus/12607778
In the case of COVD-19 (and perhaps others) ACE2 seems to be the binding receptor, I have previously read that there is a possibility of none or fewer ACE2 receptors present within the lungs of those who are RH negative.
If proposed treatments are targeting virus entry point proteins or receptors, could my above statement hold some validity that future developed vaccines or treatments may simply not “bind” to those with RH negative blood and “pass through” our body inactivated or unnoticed, simply because we genetically lack the binding proteins and receptors (in theory the lack of these proteins and receptors could also explain why some protection from certain viral infections are being documented)?
If we are unaffected or mildly effected by most viruses, could the same hold true for treatments developed in this way.
It maybe impossible to definitively answer, though given current available information would it be feasible?
With so much controversy surrounding this “operation warp speed” vaccine and possible widespread deployment in Australia, I find this of interest.
I would like to note, these are my thoughts only and should in no way be taken as solid medical advice.
My intention is to simply provoke thought.
Unfortunately, it looks like the ACE2 receptors are in multiple places within the body, not just the lungs.
fwiw, based on my knowledge & understanding of CVD19 and other things: this virus mutates a lot…maybe 40 strains identified recently. according to this article it’s spike protein used for infecting cells can change shape (which is a real problem) https://www.thailandmedical.news/news/breaking-covid-19-latest-study-reveals-that-sars-cov-2-spike-protein-has-shape-shifting-ability-to-evade-immune-attacks-and-to-ensure-its-survival … since around Feb 2020 i’ve been reading how this virus has perhaps 4 HIV insertions (3 from one type of HIV strain & one from another)…which has always meant/implied to my mind that this virus could/would/should have/could share some properties that HIV virus share. it does: it affects immune cells/it affects the immune system/hijacks immune cells/ it seems to be able to hide-out in the body (for possible later re-infection)/it mutates often and so on…a cure for AIDS from HIV infection has not happened yet. this is because HIV mutates often, attacks the immune system and hides in the body among other things. CVD19 is like HIV and SARS + it has a micro-clotting aspect/tendency. i think the people who are most likely to do best currently are those who have inherited CCR5-delta32 from one parent (~50% of the European “white” descended population) and especially those who inherited it from both parents (which is ~ 1% supposedly). the reason/s why i say this is because CVD19 apparently has HIV aspects & properties. people who are heterozygous (will be/should be helped partly) or those who are homozygous for the CCR5-delta32 gene deletion mutation could be nearly immune to CVD19 as they are to HIV infections. the reason being that both HIV & CVD19 attack the immune system. the CCR5-delta32 mutation to an important T cell receptor helps to keep HIV from attaching and destroying them. i think this could be the case w/ CVD19. that’s one reason why i keep studying data that says “whites” are being less affected and often times less severely. so, think CCR5-delta32 is the main reason for the different outcomes – because those w/ this mutation will likely have a decently functioning immune system (mostly or partly so) which will/should allow them to get rid of the virus. those w/out this mutation (partly or in whole) will likely have immune system problems: cytokine storms (over-reactive immune system), not enough T-cells and similar such things – possibly like HIV (i’ve also thought & said since around Feb 2020, that if CVD19 has these HIV parts and acts like HIV that one may never get rid of it once one is infected and that it is like aerosolized HIV). time and accurate reporting + one’s own experience should elucidate the truth/what’s true & what’s not. also: since CVD19 causes blood-clotting problems, and ABO blood types matter based on clotting propensities…and since the Rh(D) neg state is a gene deletion to the surface of red blood cells, this should also help make clotting less likely. so, those are some of my thoughts now. i intend to keep studying and remain cautious regarding CVD19 as long as it is around and a problem.
once again regarding CCR5-delta32: most of the time i’ve read the prevalence for being homozygous was/is somewhere around 1%, while being heterozygous (acquiring this genetic mutation from just one parent) was ~ 20%…which seems more likely than the 50% i posted above (although i think i’ve seen the larger # used). i seek to be accurate as well as honest & truth-full.
Thank you for your detailed response, much appreciated.
I have looked at the CCR5-Delta32 mutation and am in total agreement with you.
I do understand we need hard evidence & I accept that 100%, though for some reason my intuition has been nudging me for some time now, saying “Perhaps a connection between treatment viability and RH blood also type exists”.
I hopefully more studies will be done on the RH factor, helping clear up yet unknowns.
regarding CCR5-delta32: i’m seeing estimates for 1% delta32/delta32 (homozygous) & 10% CCR5/delta32 (heterozygous)…so, it certainly seems this mutation is not common even in Europeans and their descendants. also, CCR5 receptor removal seems to helps brain plasticity and memory…plus it/lacking it’s receptors seems to be beneficial regarding at least some cancers and things like rheumatoid arthritis. sorry if i’m boring anyone, i just continue to study this area since i think i’m homozygous: delta32/delta32. anyway…here are some links fwiw:
CCR5 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CCR5
CCR5 is a suppressor for cortical plasticity and hippocampal learning and memoryhttps://elifesciences.org/articles/20985
fixing the bad link for this: CCR5 is a suppressor for cortical plasticity and hippocampal learning and memory … https://elifesciences.org/articles/20985
also there’s this: Frequencies of gene variant CCR5-Δ32 in 87 countries based on next-generation sequencing of 1.3 million individuals sampled from 3 national DKMS donor centers – Human Immunology Volume 78, Issues 11–12, November 2017, Pages 710-717
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0198885917305104 … which seems to put these # at ~ 1%-2% & 15%-20%…these #’s seem to be most often sited and they tend to show in the evidence/studies. also i will note these are country based #’s [“The data set was stratified on the basis of donor’s self-assessed origin.”…”Only data of donors with information referring unambiguously to one single country of origin was included into the analysis.”] not “race/genetic/haplogroup” specific #’s…so once again, i suspect the percentage for the broad racial group “whites” in general, to likely be a little higher than the country of origin data…since obviously the population of different countries are differently mixed/constituted and none are just all “white” that i know of.
“CCR5-Δ32 is predominantly found in European populations and displays a frequency decline from Northern to Southeastern Eurasia, with no or rare occurrences in Asians and native populations from Africa, the Americas and Oceania [2], [10], [21], [22], [23], [24], [25]. A single mutation event as the point of origin of all present CCR5-Δ32 alleles is considered probable…” …. anyway, some others besides myself here/who come here who are Rh(D) negative should find this information interesting since there is a large amount of overlap in the areas & people w/ both of these traits…maybe 50% overlap? maybe…as a very broad generalization on my part.
Hey guys. I know how you all feel. I live in a rural state and the only adult rh negatives I know are my family members. Unfortunately I’m always alone because they all have some form of mental illness that prevents me from really communicating with them. If I am myself, they think I’m weird like rh positives do, but they think I’m smart weird. Rh positives seem to think im crazy, loser weird, so thats interesting. I too am concerned about the covid 19 shot. My state requires children to get all vaccines to attend school and my son is o negative. I wish we had more information. Doctors here don’t get it and they give me a hard time about flu shots. I’m stressed out about the possibility of home school…Mike, thank you so much. It means a lot that you keep us informed(as much as possible). I have learned to stay silent about certain topics but I have read studies that im very curious about. I cant understand half of what they say but ill just put a link here. I wonder if this has anything to do with us.
https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fimmu.2018.02039/full
i will look into the information contained in the article you posted Lesley, soon. it’s very long and complex, but that’s a challenge. i’ll see what i can find/gather/assess from it.
Mike, did you have to approve this comment of mine above to Lesley?
hmm…i guess not. looks like it works now Mike. well done!
See if you’re able to delete/change this comment of mine.
as i mentioned above i cannot remove an individual post nor apparently edit any of them, and i may not be able to do anything of importance to your site…but, i think i can see rather well what it looks like on the inside to you. i think this clear look inside is because i already had a WordPress account. now i’ve been allowed to see inside this site via WordPress, but i do not have your owner/operator/management abilities (i get stopped from using them…for instance when i open the “ADD NEW” post button link in a new tab i get this message: “Sorry, you are not allowed to access this page.”). fwiw, i’m using a Firefox browser. i saw Robin’s # in that unpublished comment to me and wrote it down in case…. overall, i don’t think i can do much on the inside except see a lot. i have no need to look around anymore either. i was just seeing, taking a look at what was in front of me. none of this is necessary for me to post my comments w/out your approval.
I was just testing different settings for you such as contributor/author etc. so maybe you got in at the wrong time. I want you to be able to publish posts just in case. As for approving comments: It’s a tricky situation and right now, if you have the option, here is my philosophy: Unless you feel right about it, don’t approve it. The only way I am able to have anybody’s comment pre-approved without having all comments pre-approved is to set things that those with a previously approved comment (from the time of me having made that change) don’t require moderation. This seems to work. So yes, I am very careful with whose comments I approve from now on. As you may have seen, there were some weird ones in there where authors switched tones to pretend to be on my good side just to hit hard with alien propaganda in the next one. It gets old, but it is what it is. Best not to touch them.
This is all about keeping things at a sane pace, cause trust me… I have seen what happens when there is no moderation required. I am glad you saw Robin’s comment. I didn’t want to approve it without her being able to edit it (I wasn’t sure if she could) and I definitely do not recommend that anyone here posts personal info. Not everyone visiting Rh negative sites is a friend.
Race-mongering and blatant inaccuracies I am also not cool with.
I don’t like moderating and the key IMO is not to moderate by post, but by commenter. Otherwise this is a babysitting session. A few comments (your and Robin’s) recently went into spam filter. I saw you do the post again and it came through, Robin’s didn’t. I left it there to figure what triggered it (probably the “V”-word), but it was gone when time came to get it in.
To keep it short:
Do as you wish, just never feel obligated to approve any comments.
Thank you. I literally can’t talk to anybody about this stuff and I know it’s really long. I really appreciate your time.
well Lesley, i’m looking into your post now:
but first a few definitions: “” Human endogenous retroviruses (HERVs) are a family of viruses within our genome with similarities to present day exogenous retroviruses. HERVs have been inherited by successive generations and it is possible that some have conferred biological benefits. However, several HERVs have been implicated in certain cancers and autoimmune diseases. “”
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1187282/
——————
“”” Endogenous retroviruses (ERVs) are endogenous viral elements in the genome that closely resemble and can be derived from retroviruses. They are abundant in the genomes of jawed vertebrates, and they comprise up to 5–8% of the human genome (lower estimates of ~1%).[1][2] ERVs are a subclass of a type of gene called a transposon, which can be packaged and moved within the genome to serve a vital role in gene expression and in regulation.[3][4] They are distinguished as retrotransposons, which are Class I elements.[5] Researchers have suggested that retroviruses evolved from a type of transposable gene called a retrotransposon, which includes ERVs; these genes can mutate and instead of moving to another location in the genome they can become exogenous or pathogenic. This means that not all ERVs may have originated as an insertion by a retrovirus but that some may have been the source for the genetic information in the retroviruses they resemble.[6] When integration of viral DNA occurs in the germ-line, it can give rise to an ERV, which can later become fixed in the gene pool of the host population. “”
“” Formation
The replication cycle of a retrovirus entails the insertion (“integration”) of a DNA copy of the viral genome into the nuclear genome of the host cell. Most retroviruses infect somatic cells, but occasional infection of germline cells (cells that produce eggs and sperm) can also occur. Rarely, retroviral integration may occur in a germline cell that goes on to develop into a viable organism. This organism will carry the inserted retroviral genome as an integral part of its own genome—an “endogenous” retrovirus (ERV) that may be inherited by its offspring as a novel allele. Many ERVs have persisted in the genome of their hosts for millions of years. However, most of these have acquired inactivating mutations during host DNA replication and are no longer capable of producing the virus. ERVs can also be partially excised from the genome by a process known as recombinational deletion, in which recombination between the identical sequences that flank newly integrated retroviruses results in deletion of the internal, protein-coding regions of the viral genome. “””
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endogenous_retrovirus
—————–
“” A retrovirus is a type of virus that inserts a copy of its RNA genome[a] into the DNA of a host cell that it invades, thus changing the genome of that cell.[3] Once inside the host cell’s cytoplasm, the virus uses its own reverse transcriptase enzyme to produce DNA from its RNA genome, the reverse of the usual pattern, thus retro (backwards). The new DNA is then incorporated into the host cell genome by an integrase enzyme, at which point the retroviral DNA is referred to as a provirus. The host cell then treats the viral DNA as part of its own genome, transcribing and translating the viral genes along with the cell’s own genes, producing the proteins required to assemble new copies of the virus. “”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retrovirus
—————–
“” Germline
In biology and genetics, the germline is the population of a multicellular organism’s cells that pass on their genetic material to the progeny (offspring). In other words, they are the cells that form the egg, sperm and the fertilised egg, as well as the fertilised egg’s future sperm or egg cells. They are usually differentiated to perform this function and segregated in a specific place away from other bodily cells. “”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germline
—————-
Human Endogenous Retroviruses Are Ancient Acquired Elements Still Shaping Innate Immune Responses … by Nicole Grandi and Enzo Tramontano
10 September 2018 https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fimmu.2018.02039/full
“” About 8% of our genome is composed of sequences with viral origin, namely human Endogenous Retroviruses (HERVs). HERVs are relics of ancient infections that affected the primates’ germ line along the last 100 million of years, and became stable elements at the interface between self and foreign DNA. Intriguingly, HERV co-evolution with the host led to the domestication of activities previously devoted to the retrovirus life cycle, providing novel cellular functions. For example, selected HERV envelope proteins have been coopted for pregnancy-related purposes, and proviral Long Terminal Repeats participate in the transcriptional regulation of various cellular genes. Given the HERV persistence in the host genome and its basal expression in most healthy tissues, it is reasonable that human defenses should prevent HERV-mediated immune activation. Despite this, HERVs and their products (including RNA, cytosolic DNA, and proteins) are still able to modulate and be influenced by the host immune system, fascinatingly suggesting a central role in the evolution and functioning of the human innate immunity. “” … “” In addition, HERV expressed products have been shown to modulate innate immunity effectors, being therefore often related on the one side to inflammatory and autoimmune disorders, while on the other side to the control of excessive immune activation through their immunosuppressive properties. Finally, HERVs have been proposed to establish a protective effect against exogenous infections. “”
“” HERVs are DNA sequences of retroviral origin that have been acquired along the last 100 million of years through multiple integrations by now-extinct exogenous retroviruses (2, 3). Peculiarly, while known retroviruses target the somatic cells, these ancestral infections affected the primate germ line, leading to the vertical transmission of HERV relics through the offspring (Figure 1). It is however still not clear if the HERV-originating exogenous retroviruses had germ line cells as main/unique target or infected this population by chance (4). In general, the mechanism that formed HERV insertions is analogous to the one used by exogenous retrovirus replication. “” … “” The action of the host editing systems and the genomic substitution rate, however, often made HERV proviruses defective, leaving only a residual protein coding capacity but more often producing non-coding RNAs. HERVs share with exogenous retroviruses the typical proviral structure, being normally composed of two long terminal repeats (LTRs) that flank the internal portion of the viral genes gag, pro-pol and env (Figure 1). The LTRs are formed during the reverse transcription and have a regulatory significance for viral genes’ expression… “”” … “” Currently, HERVs are broadly divided into three classes according to their similarity to exogenous members: class I (gammaretrovirus- and epsilonretrovirus-like), class II (betaretrovirus-like) and class III (spumaretrovirus-like). The classification of the various HERV groups is instead based on the phylogenetic relationships among the different groups – considering above all the highly-conserved pol gene – and can be corroborated by structural features found in all the members of the same genus or class… “”
“” An updated analysis of HERV sequences within the human genome has been recently performed (3) with the software RetroTector (15). A multi-step approach allowed to classify about 3200 HERV insertions in 39 “canonical” groups plus 31 “non-canonical” clades showing a mosaic structure arisen from recombination and secondary integrations (3). This classification provided a comprehensive overview of HERV diversity, being also a useful background for the still-ongoing characterization of the different HERV groups at the genomic level. Such an exact knowledge of the individual HERV sequences’ localization and coding capacity could in fact represent a great advance in the understanding of their potential effects in both physiological and pathological contexts (16). “” … “” in some other instances, HERV expression can provide RNAs and proteins potentially able to trans-regulate human genes and to influence the host immunity (21–24). It has been shown that HERV expression products can act as pathogen-associated molecular patterns (PAMPs), triggering the cellular receptors responsible for the first line of defenses (25–27). They can moreover provide antigenic epitopes recognized by lymphocytes (especially through molecular mimicry with exogenous viral molecules) and stimulating the onset of specific T- and B- cells (28–30). “””
“” HERV Role in the Evolution and Shaping of the Human Genome
About 75 years ago, the pioneer studies of Barbara McClintock suggested that transposable elements (TEs)—now known to constitute >40% of our DNA (1)—were not useless “junk DNA” but normal components of eukaryotic genomes that can have important regulatory roles (35). Nowadays, growing evidences confirm that TEs had a crucial role in the shaping and evolution of vertebrates’ genomes, contributing to the establishment of lineage-specific patterns of gene expression (36, 37). “”” … “” Of course, the majority of TEs have been acquired several million of years ago, being by now silenced due to the accumulation of mutations in their coding sequence and to various cellular mechanism of transcriptional repression, such as histone hypermethylation. Despite this, many TEs are likely involved in a long-term co-evolution with the host “” … “” Accordingly, despite controlling mechanisms, many HERV sequences still retain a residual expression capacity, leading to the production of either coding or non-coding RNA transcripts that can both influence the host biology. One of the most remarkable examples of the HERV impact on vertebrate physiology is represented by “syncytins,” an ensemble of Env proteins encoded by different HERV sequences in all eutherian mammals through a process of convergent evolution (45). Syncytins have in fact been domesticated independently by the various species, providing common and important functions for placenta development and physiology… “””
“” Aside from protein production, the thousands of HERV sequences dispersed in our DNA contributed to the evolution of the primates’ genome by providing an abundant source of regulatory elements. It is well known that our genetic information is organized in regulatory networks, involving both cis- regulatory sequences and trans-acting genes, and that their interaction is at the base of cellular plasticity and evolution (23, 44). Also HERVs participate to this complex interplay, being able to regulate the host genes’ activity in several ways and at different expression levels “” … “” Furthermore, despite the frequent loss of protein-coding capacity, also the abundant production of HERV-derived non-coding RNAs (ncRNAs) such as microRNA and long ncRNA, may likely provide cis-regulatory elements able to modulate the expression of the host genes, either alone (e.g., providing a recognition motif for an RNA-binding protein) or in concert with cellular transcription factors (Figure 2b). This occurs for example in human embryonic stem cells, whose pluripotency depends on nuclear long ncRNAs expressed by a HERV-H element and recruiting specific cellular transcriptional activators (51). “”” … “” Finally, if a HERV protein is produced, it can be able to modulate the host genic expression through the biological activities previously involved in the virus life cycle and now providing new cellular functions “”
“” Beside the role of individual HERV sequences, it has been proposed that the ensemble of TEs widespread in the human DNA can have a more extensive role. By constituting a sort of parallel regulatory network, TEs can possibly influence multiple host genes and, thus, shape whole pathways involved in complex cellular processes (22, 36, 61). Accordingly, more than one third of p53 binding sites in the human genome have been dispersed by class I HERV sequences, which have become major components of the p53 regulatory network (62). Hence, the acquisition of HERV insertions could have acted as a driving force for human genome plasticity and cellular networking, and, as described below, such TE-dependent modeling and functional renewal has been particularly critical in the evolution of innate immunity. “” … ” Overall, one of the soundest evidences about the role of HERVs in the shaping of pivotal immune systems regards the interferon (IFN) network, a crucial antiviral pathway for innate immunity and a fundamental effector to initiate and maintain adaptive responses (67). Intriguingly, Chuong and coauthors showed that HERV insertions greatly contributed to the evolution and amplification of IFN transcriptional network, dispersing independently a wide number of IFN-inducible enhancers in many mammalian genomes (22). In particular, the experimental deletion of a subset of these endogenous elements in human cell lines affected the activity of neighboring genes induced by IFN, impairing thus important immune pathway such as the AIM2 inflammasome (22). “”
“” HERVs as Activators of Antiviral Innate Immunity
Innate immunity is the first and most ancient line of defenses against microbial infections, acting by a complex network that is conserved throughout the animal kingdom (72). When an infectious agent overcomes the organism physical barriers, the presence of conserved PAMPs (i.e., lipids, proteins, glycans, and nucleic acids) allows their prompt recognition by innate immunity sensors, namely pattern recognition receptors (PRRs). PRRs are germ line-encoded receptors with a pivotal role in antiviral defenses, as well as in the response to self-injuries “” … “” In both cases, PRR stimulation by microbial PAMPs activates a complex cascade of signaling that triggers the production of various pro-inflammatory molecules, including cytokines, chemokines and type I IFN (78, 79). These effectors have a double role. On the one side, they quickly establish an antimicrobial environment to counteract the infection. On the other side, the activation of PRRs expressed on antigen-presenting cells (APCs), especially dendritic cells (DCs), evokes the development of a long-lasting adaptive immunity, leading to the onset of specific cellular and humoral defenses (78). The latters are mainly represented by the clonal expansion of naïve cytotoxic T cells and the production of antibodies by B lymphocytes. Other important APCs are macrophages and B lymphocytes “”
“” HERVs are integral parts of the human genome since millions of years, are highly transcribed during embryonic development and expressed at variable levels in several adult tissues. Hence, from the immunological point of view, HERV expressed products somehow stay at the interface between self-molecules and microbial antigens. “” … ” In principle, the innate immune pathways activated by HERV-derived products are the same involved in the first line antiviral defenses counteracting exogenous retroviruses ”
“” Sensing of HERVs by Transmembrane PRRs
In addition, HERV-W Env hold a significant superantigen activity (116), that has also been proposed to play a role in demyelination, by evoking a polyclonal non-specific T-cell activation and the massive release of multiple cytokines (98, 109). A similar interaction between HERV-W Env and the TLR4 of pancreatic β cells has been proposed to promote autoimmune reactions and to affect insulin secretion in type I diabetes patients (117).””
“” A second evidence of HERV pro-inflammatory potential comes from the investigation of HERV-K(HML2) group expression in psoriasis, another poorly understood autoimmune disorder. “” … “” Finally, the stimulation of endosomal TLR3 by HERV dsRNA molecules has been observed after the treatment with DNA methyltransferase inhibitors, anticancer agents that were shown to remove methylation from the HERV promoter regions, causing their reactivation and subsequently triggering IFNα and β responses (27). Interestingly, such a HERV-mediated immune-stimulation is probably at the base of demethylating agent anticancer effect (see below). “”
“” Sensing of HERVs by Cytosolic PRRs
… The main dsDNA sensors relevant to HIV infection are IFI16 and cGAS, which are both upregulated in the absence of antiretroviral therapy and associated with chronic immune activation “” … “” Given that retrovirus replication takes place mostly in the cytoplasm, cytPRRs are known to be crucial to the detection of RNA and DNA originated by exogenous retroviruses, while very few evidences about the molecular sensing of HERV nucleic acids are available yet “” … “” A role in the prevention of HERV DNA/RNA accumulation has been proposed for certain enzymes involved in the cytoplasmic homeostasis of nucleic acids, which could possible provide some protection against HERV-mediated immune activation “”
“” Consequences of Innate Immunity Stimulation
Independently from the cytosolic or membrane-associated localization, the sensing of viral molecules by innate immune receptors evokes the production of pro-inflammatory effectors (such as IFN, cytokines and chemokines), which promptly establish an antiviral status. This immune activation contributes to contain the infection and prepares the ground for subsequent adaptive immune responses, mediated by T- and B-lymphocytes that elicit specific cellular and humoral defenses, respectively. Overall, such innate-adaptive signaling is fundamental to counteract exogenous viruses, and the resulting immune activation is generally able to eliminate the infectious triggers and then to shut down. In the case of HERV molecules, however, their stable presence and expression in the organism could provide continuous triggers to the host immune sensors. In fact, the main findings linking HERVs to autoimmune and inflammatory disorders rely on the chronic stimulus exerted by endogenous retroviral molecules, which could sustain molecular mimicry events based on the sequence identity between HERV products and either exogenous viruses or body components “” … “” The same antiviral status prompted by HERV expression can hence create a vicious circle in which inflammatory molecules and epigenetic dysregulation further upregulate HERV expression “” … “” the role of HERVs in triggering innate defenses could contribute to autoimmune pathological developments and, hence, be a valuable therapeutic target. Accordingly, monoclonal antibodies against HERV-W Env proteins are currently under clinical trials as innovative approach against multiple sclerosis (133, 134) and type I diabetes “” … “” Hence, besides protein production, the genetic analysis of HERV loci in the neighborhood of immune genes, especially if presenting key immune roles, can provide insights on inter-individual variants concurring to autoimmunity risks. “”
“” HERVs as Inhibitors of Innate Immunity
In parallel to pro-inflammatory effects, HERV-derived peptides have also been implicated in immune-suppressive mechanisms. The latter mainly involve Env transmembrane subunits, which hold a characteristic immunosuppressive domain (ISD) conserved among retroviral Env proteins. “”
“” HERVs and Exogenous Infections
HERVs have been proposed to have a role during exogenous viral infections, and such role could be either beneficial or harmful (16). It is worth to note that the interplay between exogenous and endogenous viruses is still not fully characterized, even if some evidences suggest that exogenous infection sustained by different viral species—among which HIV, herpesviruses and influenza—are able to modulate HERV expression “” … “” Here, however, we will focus on the possible protective effects against exogenous infections exerted by HERV expression products, which can theoretically be able to restrict any step of the viral cycle “”
“” A partial resistance to exogenous infection could depend on the interference and blocking of the same cellular receptor by HERV-derived proteins or pseudo-viral particles “” … “” Finally, in the case of HERV proteins’ production, their identity with exogenous viral proteins could led to complementation events possibly affecting the formation of viral particles “” … “” On the one side, all these direct interactions between HERV and exogenous viral products has been argued to had a role in the restriction and extinction of HERV-originating ancestral exogenous retroviruses “” … “” On the other side, the same interactions could have also contributed to the rapid evolution and adaptation of HERV genes, driving the selection of elements that could increase the range of restricted microbes and confer a sort of broad-viral protection “”
“” HERVs, Cancer and Anticancer Strategies
In the context of cancer development, the ability of HERVs to modulating the immune system may have opposite effects, being potentially relevant to both the oncogenic processes and the anticancer defenses (23).
On the one side, HERV immunosuppressive functions might contribute to cancer progression by reducing the immune recognition and attack of tumor cells. “”
“” On the other side, the immunogenic properties of HERV expression combined with their general upregulation in cancer tissues, especially due to a broad epigenetic dysregulation, could hence represent an innovative therapeutic target “”
“” Conclusions
A growing body of evidences suggests that the relationship between our genome and HERVs constitutes an intricate and multifaceted co-evolution spanning million of years throughout mammalian development. During such a long liaison, the detrimental effects exerted by HERVs have been balanced by beneficial activities that brought innovation and diversity to the human genome and physiology. “” … “” Intriguingly, while HERVs are products of ancestral exogenous viral infections pervading primates, they became major contributors in shaping and improving the human antiviral immunity. “”
my commnets:
— ACE2 receptors exist in males gonads (among many other places/organs in humans) and i believe i’ve read that the CVD19/SARSCOV2 virus has been found in them. that would mean/imply to me that CVD19 could affect the human germline based on what i just read in this research on HERVs. another very interesting possibility (that occurred to me) is that these HERVs may have been responsible (at least in part) for the Rh negative gene deletion mutation occurring. HERVs may also have been involved w/ the CCR5-delta32 mutation/gene deletion. very interesting information. fwiw, this is also likely the longest post i’ve made here by a large amount. —
Thank you so much for that. I was thinking the exact same thing. It was tough for me to understand so I wanted a second take on it. Maybe this can help us for future research. Thank you Ken!
fwiw: HIV is a retrovirus – https://www.ipmglobal.org/how-hiv-infects-cell
looks like i can create a new topic post now…be an author like it says after your name/ID here. maybe i’ll try that at some point in the future, if i have a good idea and/or want to see if i’m actually able to create a new post w/ pic/image etc… perhaps i can do bulk actions now, but i see no use/reason for that currently or for even trying to use it/do it. as for editing, removing or approving an individual post: that still appears to be your responsibility now. i know of no way yet to do any of those things/actions (added keyboard shortcuts, but maybe creating a Jetpack account makes a difference…at least maybe for some things – haven’t done that yet). that’s okay imo. might as well learn to deal w/ and do well w/ what’s been made available to me presently. we’ll see how things go from here. thanks for the trust. trust is best when it goes both ways. it does here. well done.
Thank you, Ken. And just fyi: The reason I brought up the commenting part:
In the past, some moderators elsewhere decided to approve all sorts of stuff and when I asked they replied “I thought you wanted me to”. So that was the only clarification I felt I needed to make: no need to make approval or disapproval related decisions unless they come from within. Whatever keeps the ball rolling into the right direction: kick it when the time is right?
Being an A- myself, a lot of things that you said, I can relate to. Also for most of my life, I was very alienated by the behavior of most so called “normal” people. After a while, I began to proudly identify myself as being an Alien human. After a while, I became a first rate martial artist & then I didn’t give a damn what other people thought of me, because I wasn’t threatened by them. Then after much time, I started hearing some theories about E.T. type aliens as having a RH negative blood type. Then as a non-conformist who proudly identified myself as an alien, it was easy for me to believe in that theory, though there’s no conclusive proof for it. But also there’s no real evidence that disproves it either, even though my intuition leans in that direction….There’s also a question for you Mike about what you said about Neanderthal humans having a larger brain capacity than average humans. Some time ago I once read somewhere that early Cro-Magnon humans had a iarger brain capacity than modern humans, but I’m not shure thats a fact. So maybe there’s more than one type of early human that has a larger brain capacity.
Cro Magnon man wasn’t a species or race, it was a mix of humanoids, Neanderthals being one of the mixes. Neanderthals: 1,500–1,740 cm3 brain size. a study of 46 adults aged 22–49 years and of mainly European descent found an average brain volume of 1273.6 cm3 for men, ranging from 1052.9 to 1498.5 cm3, and 1131.1 cm3 for women, ranging from 974.9 to 1398.1 cm3
I prefer the term “European early modern humans” (EEMH) instead of Cro Magnons as it identifies better what they were. Naturally, their cranial capacity was somewhere in between that of Neanderthals and humans today.
“Then as a non-conformist who proudly identified myself as an alien, it was easy for me to believe in that theory, though there’s no conclusive proof for it. But also there’s no real evidence that disproves it either, even though my intuition leans in that direction…”
intuitive people don’t “identify themselves as”. they just are.
I have approved your alien comments here: https://www.rhesusnegative.net/staynegative/do-you-really-believe-in-aliens/
This post was started in search for evidence. if there is no evidence to prove or disprove something, it isn’t of interest here.
yes, being different or being very different doesn’t mean one comes from another world or from off-this-world/this planet…even though that’s what it feels like. i understand this very much – for mostly, i’m too different.
fwiw, i think, intuit & believe the following – in general now: if one looks at the embryo development of humans vs a variety of other animals, like here: https://www2.hawaii.edu/~pine/book1qts/embryo-compare.jpg … one should see lots of similarities, especially at the beginning. this results from having a large percentage of the same inherited DNA (humans maybe ~ 70% the same DNA w/ zebrafish & apparently around 80% the same w/ cows) from a common ancestor from varying #’s of millions of years in the past. the differentiation that occurs as each ages is the result of the differences in the genes of each mostly and these differences are largely the result of genetic mutations/changes that eventually created all the different animal species. being Rh(D) negative is the result of a large DNA gene deletion/mutation. to my mind and studies, this Rh neg state in humans, is likely related to and could have developed from when Early Modern European Humans (EMEH) and Neanderthals mixed or at sometime after the mixing ended. this mixing apparently resulted in many current people having a small percent of their genes coming directly from Neanderthal DNA/their gene line based on the . Mike’s thoughts & my own thoughts on the evidence of Neanderthals becoming extinct points to the males being killed while the females were probably forced to breed w/ the conquering EMEH men. this mixing in Europe or what resulted sometime after this gene-wise, seems to me to be where this Rh(D) mutation occurred. a very good idea of where & how this “European” Rh(D) negative gene deletion/mutation likely came from is generated by understanding what EME Humans likely did & what they likely were like, how genetic mutations/genetic changes occur, what genetic mutations actually are, how often they tend to occur – seeing the evidence of genetic evolution/change as expressed in the ~ first 8 weeks of embryonic development of different animals species – by seeing & understanding the carbon-based life-cycle genetic expansion from the most simple: proteins, RNA, DNA, Archaeans, Prokaryotes – bacteria, Eukaryotes and so on from the carbon atom’s superior binding abilities to form complex molecules along w/ the help of free electrons. all life on this planet is related to each other (apparently beginning ~ 4.5 billion y.a.) and branched-off from a common ancestor at different points in this vast past via genetic changes/mutations.
if, the current Rh(D) negative global percentage is ~ 7% (O- 3%, A- 2.50%, B- 1% & AB- 0.50%) https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/what-are-the-different-blood-types.html … then, a rough estimate of the total # of people this represents who are now Rh(D) negative and alive on this planet is ~ = (7,900,000,000 multiplied by .07) 553,000,000 … a link for a world population counter: https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/ … that’s a lot of people who could perhaps be interested in this site, it’s users and the information and all that’s exchanged here. rough estimates of around 15% Rh(D) negative prevalence in largely European descended countries’ populations seems reasonably accurate now for use as a quick reference # for me or anyone else doing Rh(D) related calculations (w/ of course the proviso that this is a rather broad generalization & individual countries, areas/regions & cities can vary greatly from this).
Thanks Ken,
I am NOT a conspiracy theorist, though I do consider myself open to evidence based alternative theories.
Someone only just a few days ago brought the “Georgia Guidestones” to my attention & now you mention the population of RH -, synchronicity?
Without a traceable known source, I at the time did not pay much attention to the stones and simply discounted them as a very elaborate hoax (which it most likely could be), though after seeing your above calculations I could not help but instantly recall the first message.
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/zQbXvb0EaUM/maxresdefault.jpg
With current world events and perhaps some form of documented virus protections for the RH negative population, it’s an Interesting coincidence that makes me wonder.
Hey did you all see this?
–On the basis of the similarity with known archaic genomes, we assign 84.5% of fragments to an Altai or Vindija Neanderthal origin and 3.3% to Denisovan origin; 12.2% of fragments are of unknown origin. We find that Icelanders have more Denisovan-like fragments than expected through incomplete lineage sorting.
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-020-2225-9
–This one refers to introgressed genes but i can’t understand if its talking about rh negativity..
introgressed alleles associated with the immune system response can increase the risk of inflammation or autoimmunity under environmental factors changing overtime—–
detected evidence of Neanderthal introgression in the chemokine receptor (CCR) gene family constituting the risk alleles for celiac disease, which was possibly maintained by selective forces in early European population.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6070777/#__ffn_sectitle
Thank you, Lesley.
You seem to read my mind as well. The Altai Neanderthals are right up my alley. Reminder:
I have posted this years ago after a conversation with Max Planck Institute:
https://www.rhesusnegative.net/staynegative/popular-questions/neanderthals/
The 2 Neanderthal specimens from that region were positive homozygotes (Rh+/+)
Data regarding Rh factor from Spain wasn’t made available, only type O ABO.
This leads me to wonder how old Rh negative blood truly is. Could it be that it wasn’t around during the time of the Neanderthals and a more recent mutation such as blue eyes?
It might be.. In one of those studies I posted, I believe it was saying the Denisovan/Neanderthal DNA that was passed down affects the OAS1 gene, is very old, and responsible for the diversity of the major histocompatibility complex….I dont know if thats the right phrase. I only understand about 1/3 of those studies…I have another one that says the Denisovan/Neanderthal OAS1 is the wild type, and people still have it today, and some have a close variant . Ill see if I can find it.
i’ve made a mental note to myself to look into these links. looks like you’ve found some interesting stuff again Lesley. so, eventually i should get around to looking at them more closely and see if i can develop an opinion or something about them on what their about/discussing.
Thanks Ken. I value your opinion.
Here’s the study I read, about OAS1. It really sounds like its talking about rh negativity but im not sure.
—Consistent with our observations in yeast, gorilla
OAS1 and human OAS1R130C produce far less 2–5A than wildtype human OAS1 or gorilla OAS1C130R
—-Although OAS1 is the most ancient of the OAS genes, its volatile evolutionary history is consistent with potential costs.
—–OAS1 activity has been implicated for specific
immune function against several human viruses. Notably, the
low-activity human OAS1 allele has been shown to increase susceptibility toWest Nile virus infection (Lim et al., 2009). In addition,
overexpression of OAS1 inhibits Dengue virus infection in human
cells in an RNase L-dependent manner (Lin et al., 2009)
——The human OAS1 variant associated with lower in vivo 2–5A levels is
also associated with increased risk of viral infection (Lim et al.,
2009) and development of Sjo¨ gren syndrome (Li et al., 2017a),
an autoimmune disease associated with Epstein-Barr and cytomegalovirus infection. Despite these risks, the low-activity allele
rose to near fixation in ancient African populations, followed by
the reintroduction of the ancestral high-activity allele via introgression from Neanderthals to non-African populations
Carey et al., 2019, Cell Host & Microbe 25, 336–343
February 13, 2019 ª 2019 Elsevier Inc.
https://doi.org/10.1016/j.chom.2019.01.001
OAS1 seems to be largely about innate immunity…and it’s job/purpose is to get rid of apparently certain types/kinds/specific viruses. from the research you linked to: “” OAS1 recognizes a general motif of 17 or more base pairs of double-stranded RNA with little preference for nucleotide sequence, a pattern frequently occurring in structures within the human transcriptome “” …. “” Here we investigate diversity in OAS1 function among primates and report a recurring pattern of fixed or polymorphic alleles that decrease or eliminate enzymatic activity. “” https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6609161/
——————–
Summaries for OAS1 Gene
Entrez Gene Summary for OAS1 Gene
“” This gene is induced by interferons and encodes a protein that synthesizes 2′,5′-oligoadenylates (2-5As). This protein activates latent RNase L, which results in viral RNA degradation and the inhibition of viral replication. Alternative splicing results in multiple transcript variants with different enzymatic activities. Polymorphisms in this gene have been associated with susceptibility to viral infection and diabetes mellitus, type 1. A disease-associated allele in a splice acceptor site influences the production of the p46 splice isoform. This gene is located in a cluster of related genes on chromosome 12. [provided by RefSeq, Feb 2016] https://www.genecards.org/cgi-bin/carddisp.pl?gene=OAS1 “”
https://www.genecards.org/cgi-bin/carddisp.pl?gene=OAS1
— one of the things that crossed my mind while i was reading about this gene, is that it may be involved/activated against CVD19 and/or may be helpful through to being harmful if it overreacts. in primates, some have lost this gene…and that may be because it can sometimes cause too many problems even though it’s main purpose is to stop viruses & their replication. —
this has been bothering me for a while now: ABO blood type O is recessive to A,B & AB…it is claimed that A & B are older blood types than O (some claim O is older than B) in primates at least (AB is the most recent human ABO blood type group – i have no logical problems w/ this assessment)….for the most part globally: type O+ is the most common positive ABO blood type still, and type O negative is the most common/prevalent Rh(D) negative blood type worldwide on average – still/now/at this time. the problem is that: i think i’ve been seeing people claim that A & B are actually older HUMAN blood types (in my last link below type AB is estimated to have begun ~ the 16 century from A & B mixing). how can this be possible if O+ & O- are recessive to A/B/AB blood types…which means – like being Rh(D) neg, – one must be homozygous (one must receive these genes from both parents to be classified as having either the O+ or O- negative blood type). for type O to not be the first human A/B/O blood type: there must not have been much A/B/O blood type mixing for a long time (since type B’s generally exist in lower #’s globally, i suspect they are likely the second most recent human ABO blood type)…or there must have been tremendous selective advantage to being type O or some combination of these two possible reasons for type O being the most common now (along w/ offspring survivability to old age rates etc). i personally see some advantages for type O blood (? is it a mutation, or is it the other way around/the other types are mutations from it?), but i do not think they are at all sufficient to account for them being the most common blood ABO blood group on the planet. so like i’ve said in the past about type O negative blood – it’s going away – & i really don’t think this/the modern world suits type O’s very well … the only way that it will remain (CRIPSR gene editing & such may affect this/but it may not change O’s outlook on modernity) is if O’s & O negs mate in some way/or are mated (“bred”) imo (and even this may not work-out very well for O’s in general/but hey, no one can control their own birth — O negs are too different often – and i don’t really care whether they/O’s mate or not, i’m just expressing a point/my thoughts and some experiences) – some say mixed ABO genes will carry this allele onward/forward (i’m focusing on just O negs in particular now)…i say it will for a while, but with myself being O neg and others i’ve known who are O neg not marrying (one is now dead) <— which is never considered in calculations – O negs percentages will continue to decline, if – as has been my experience – many w/ this blood type may never marry and have any children w/ anyone of any blood type. so: type O blood appears to me to be the original human blood type…non-inter-blood group mixing between O's & other blood types/namely A's [ie largely just mating w/in ones own blood group (family/tribe perhaps)], being much more prolific w/ producing long lived off-spring-to adults) + blood type O's advantages do not seem to be sufficient to put them in first place globally #'s-wise as they currently are now. that's the way this looks to me…and it's what i currently think on the subject now fwiw to anyone. what's the truth/true?
Blood type distribution by country https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_type_distribution_by_country
What's the Rarest Blood Type? By Rachael Rettner – Senior Writer April 01, 2019 https://www.livescience.com/36559-common-blood-type-donation.html
Why Do We Have Different Blood Types? By Ben Shouse – Life's Little Mysteries contributor September 29, 2011 https://www.livescience.com/33528-why-blood-types-exist-compatible.html
Which human blood group evolved first? https://www.sciencefocus.com/the-human-body/which-human-blood-group-evolved-first/
The many guesses from “respectable” publications regarding the age of blood type AB make absolutely no sense. Whenever an A person and a B person first mated and the A and B alleles were passed down, that was when the first blood type AB person was created. AB is not a unique allele, but a combination of two dominant ones.
The ABO-typing of skeletons from Israel study speaks for itself:
In 1977, a study determined the ABO blood types of 68 skeletons of Jewish residents from 1,600 to 2,000 years ago in and around Jerusalem. 55 of those findings were diagnosable and more than half of the ABO blood groups were found to be the otherwise rare AB blood group.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/888938
“Sixty-eight ancient skeletons, unearthed at Jerusalem and En Gedi and, according to the archeological data belonging to Jewish residents of these places from about 1,600 to 2,000 years ago, were ABO-typed by means of the hemagglutination-inhibition test. The blood groups of 13 skeletons were undiagnosable and the remaining 55 showed the following distribution: 30.91% A-group, 14.54% B-group, 50.91% AB-group and 3.64% O-group. According to these findings, the population to which these skeletons belonged must have had a high frequency of genes IA and IB, and a low occurrence of O blood group and its related IO gene.”
This is a very small sample, but it still raises the question:
Could type O have significantly increased over time?
Native American tribes might hold some indications here:
Blackfoot are high in A, but all others 100% O? Origin: Asia.
Exception:
Inuits due to Inuit migrations 1,500 years ago changing blood type frequencies of the Proto-Eskimos from 5,000 years ago significantly.
good point(s) Mike about blood type AB and it’s first occurrence (i understand now – AB’s are people who inherited A from one parent & B from the other…both A & B are essentially equally dominant and people who are AB only pass A or B along to their children). i accept the info you posted about AB & the others as is. i haven’t really studied the AB group/blood type combination much.
mostly i was focusing on type O. but, it makes sense to me and basically should to everyone else that blood type AB was/is the most recent blood ABO type/combination type based on %/# of people currently expressing it among the world’s population and from how it must have occurred.
bumped into the following info (while looking into AB formation) which tends to support my thoughts about the type O blood group and it being 1st [if the H antigen is the thing from which (?) A and B antigens form] :: Blood Groups and Red Cell Antigens …Chapter 6 The Hh blood group
“”The Hh blood group contains one antigen, the H antigen, which is found on virtually all RBCs and is the building block for the production of the antigens within the ABO blood group.
H antigen deficiency is known as the “Bombay phenotype” (h/h, also known as Oh) and is found in 1 of 10,000 individuals in India and 1 in a million people in Europe. There is no ill effect with being H deficient, but if a blood transfusion is ever needed, people with this blood type can receive blood only from other donors who are also H deficient. (A transfusion of “normal” group O blood can trigger a severe transfusion reaction.)
Because the H antigen is the precursor of the ABO blood group antigens, if it is not produced, the ABO blood group antigens are also not produced.”” https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK2268/
Antigen https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antigen
ABO blood group system https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ABO_blood_group_system
H antigen https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H_antigen
hh blood group — Biochemistry –
“”Biosynthesis of the H, A and B antigens involves a series of enzymes (glycosyl transferases) that transfer monosaccharides. The resulting antigens are oligosaccharide chains, which are attached to lipids and proteins that are anchored in the red blood cell membrane. The function of the H antigen, apart from being an intermediate substrate in the synthesis of ABO blood group antigens, is not known, although it may be involved in cell adhesion. People who lack the H antigen do not suffer from deleterious effects, and being H-deficient is only an issue if they need a blood transfusion, because they would need blood without the H antigen present on red blood cells.””
“”Depending upon a person’s ABO blood type, the H antigen is converted into either the A antigen, B antigen, or both. If a person has group O blood, the H antigen remains unmodified. Therefore, the H antigen is present more in blood type O and less in blood type AB.””
– Genetics –
“”Bombay phenotype occurs in individuals who have inherited two recessive alleles of the H gene (i.e.: their genotype is hh). These individuals do not produce the H carbohydrate that is the precursor to the A and B antigens, meaning that individuals may possess alleles for either or both of the A and B alleles without being able to express them.””
— seems to me: that this H antigen was likely present before the A and B antigens existed, otherwise they’d have nothing apparently to attach to/or grow from/express themselves from/synthesize or whatever the best words to express their generation/coming into existence is. — Ken —
forgot the link for this section in my large post above: hh blood group — Biochemistry – https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hh_blood_group
Interesting Ken. I read somewhere that O is named for Original Hunter(Neanderthal). I am aware that some were A +, but maybe there were different groups…Another interesting thing about O; an article Mike posted had a link to a Fertility/pregnancy clinic that says most women getting IVF are type O and type A has an easier time having children.
–I also read somewhere that the rare rhNull “golden blood”, which is negative, was discovered in a native American man.
–Here is a study about Han Chinese and type O. O+ is the 2nd most prevalent, behind type B and rh negative is rare. But they found several new different Os.
[ Our results indicate that the molecular genetic background of O phenotype is heterogeneous in the Chinese population. The 5 rare alleles reported here are isolated cases. Surely more O alleles will be found in the Chinese. ]
http://www.annclinlabsci.org/content/37/1/71.full#:~:text=O%20blood%20group%20is%20common,from%20the%20Chinese%20Han%20population.
**Do you happen to know what the G allele is?**
Happy September 11th day – hope it’s better for all than it was here in New York 19 yrs ago.
yes, interesting Lesley about type O. nice pic btw – it’s nice to see/have an idea of who i’m interacting/communicating w/ here. best wishes to you/your husband & child too (i hope i got that right).
seems the like the 1st known/discovered Rh(null) was: “It was first discovered in an Aboriginal Australian and is extremely rare, with fewer than 50 individuals known to have Rhnull blood in the 50 years after its discovery.” https://www.science.org.au/curious/people-medicine/rare-blood-types … this discovery seems to have occurred in 1961.
from your link: “56 reported variable O alleles” … that’s a lot imo. i’m assuming the first 2 are O+ & O- …. i looked to see if type A had any variations – i didn’t find any data on this. are there varieties of type A & type B? i would think there should be, unless these are only variations on type O in some sense. i don’t know. lots to learn here when one starts digging deeper. updates: found this: A Novel Variant B Allele of the ABO Blood Group Gene Associated with Lack of B Antigen Expression https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3076366/ … and now this:
Identification of novel variant A alleles within the ABO gene https://www.deepdyve.com/lp/wiley/identification-of-novel-variant-a-alleles-within-the-abo-gene-Vm8eXWMbNv … both links seem to be about weakly expressed B and A antigens alleles/mutations.
“The O blood type (usually resulting from the absence of both A and B alleles) is very common around the world. About 63% of humans share it.” https://www2.palomar.edu/anthro/vary/vary_3.htm … if ~ 63% of the people on the planet carry at least one O allele, that seems to add even more evidence to my belief that type O was likely the first human blood type. also, as always – blood type compatibility flows away from type O & not the other way around. which has always implied: that was the direction of change/movement/proliferation/variance…ie – away from O.
“G allele” — G Allele Of Mu-opioid Receptor Gene Is Linked To Craving For Alcohol
Date: January 5, 2007 https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/01/070103201526.htm
Genetic Determinants of Serum Testosterone Concentrations in Men — https://journals.plos.org/plosgenetics/article?id=10.1371/journal.pgen.1002313
I hope it’s okay for me to voice what your comments trigger, for example:
The woman was Aboriginal. My question: According to an older study, the Rh- frequencies among Australian Aboriginals seems to be 0%.
https://www.rhesusnegative.net/staynegative/pure-native-americans-lack-the-rh-negative-gene-completely/
I am wondering why she was identified as such. For her not just to be Rh-, but miss all of the other antigens than D, this appears to be out of place.
Was she mixed and of Irish/Scottish recessive genes from both sides being passed down by chance?
i felt/was bothered the first time i read about that woman as well (read about her being the one earlier this year). doesn’t seem to make sense at face value. i’d like to know more. i’m still assuming she was first. i’d like to see what she looked like and know more about her genetics & so on. very interesting subject this Rh(null) thing & as is the “Oh” blood type (the no H antigen: h/h blood type).
So let’s clarify something:
H is never present in blood type A, B and AB people?
Or did I read that incorrectly?
It sounds to me like H is type O, and the H turns into A or B for those types. So it sounds like type O is the original.
There is a strange comment from someone claiming to be the second person:
https://www.rhesusnegative.net/staynegative/popular-questions/what-is-rh-null/
Probably nonsense, but never know.
Rhesus Blood Group System
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1080/10245330410001714176
The most common Rhesus (Rh) haplotype in both
Caucasians and indigenous Australians is CDe or R1
[43]. However, the frequency of the R1 haplotype in
indigenous Australians is much higher than in
Caucasians (0.65 and 0.42 respectively). In indigenous
Australians the second most common haplotype is
cDE or R2 and the frequency varies from 0.14
(Queensland) to 0.25 (North, Western Central and
Western Desert) [44]. In contrast the frequency of R2 in
Caucasians is only 0.14. Indigenous Australians also
tend to have a higher frequency of R0 and Rz
haplotypes (0.07 and 0.02 respectively) than Caucasians (0.026 and 0.002 respectively) (Table VII) [43].
Very few RhD negative indigenous Australians
have been reported. In 1948 Simmons and
Graydon reported four RhD negative individuals
(from Queensland) whose red cells had failed to
react with anti-D serum [45]. However, “Weak D”
had not been excluded. Simmons subsequently
reported a RhD negative (r0
r0
) aborigine from La
Grange in the Kimberley region in Western
Australia [41]. The red cells were tested with
polyspecific antisera by the indirect antiglobulin
and two-stage papain tests thereby confirming true
RhD negative status.
Rhnull was first described when the red cells of an
aboriginal woman from the Western Desert region
failed to react with more than 100 different Rhesus
antisera [46]. It was noted at the time that this
phenotype could represent the inheritance of a rare
suppressor regulator gene at a locus other than Rh,
or the inheritance of silent alleles at the Rh locus.
The genetic background of the Rhnull phenotype
was determined when relatives were studied.
These studies suggested that this form of Rhnull
was due to a modifier/regulator gene, X0
r which
prevents the normal Rh (CDE) haplotype from
functioning [43]. Rhnull has also been found in other
nationalities to be caused by a modifier/regulator
gene as well as an amorph or silent allele. Both forms
are very rare although the regulator type is slightly
more common than the amorph.
A variant of R2 was described in 1962 when Vos
and Kirk reported an antibody in an indigenous
Australian that reacted with 130 Eþ samples from
Caucasians but was non-reactive with 50% of a
similar number of Eþ red cells from indigenous
Australians [47]. This antibody was called anti-ET
.
The phenotype of Caucasians was assumed to
be EþET
þ and the indigenous Australians either
EþET
þ or EþET
2. In 1994 the International Society
of Blood Transfusion Working Party declared this
antigen obsolete as antibodies t
Thanks Ken! I felt the Matrix background was appropriate. I hope your day goes well. Thats very interesting about the G allele.
–Thats strange that the Han Chinese have more type B but they have so many different Os..It would make sense if they were mostly O, like native Americans.
—I posted a study a few days ago about the OAS1 gene we inherited from Neanderthals/Denisovans, and that’s the reason for the variety of blood types. The authors also think its being positively selected and possibly has the ability to adapt/change/evolve, whatever you wanna call it.
also fwiw: for me, mutations regarding genes/genetics are changes to genes (the coding essentially/base pairs) and this also include deletions & additions to genetic code length. i’ve seen/read lots about genetic deletions lately….genetic additions must exist too. in fact they do:
DNA Mutation and Repair – http://www2.csudh.edu/nsturm/CHEMXL153/DNAMutationRepair.htm
Types of Mutations – “”There are three types of DNA Mutations: base substitutions, deletions and insertions.””
more from the book: Blood Groups and Red Cell Antigens https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK2264/
– Chapter 2 Blood group antigens are surface markers on the red blood cell membrane
— Red blood cell antigens can be sugars or proteins
“”Blood group antigens are either sugars or proteins, and they are attached to various components in the red blood cell membrane.
For example, the antigens of the ABO blood group are sugars. They are produced by a series of reactions in which enzymes catalyze the transfer of sugar units. A person’s DNA determines the type of enzymes they have, and, therefore, the type of sugar antigens that end up on their red blood cells.
In contrast, the antigens of the Rh blood group are proteins. A person’s DNA holds the information for producing the protein antigens. The RhD gene encodes the D antigen, which is a large protein on the red blood cell membrane. Some people have a version of the gene that does not produce D antigen, and therefore the RhD protein is absent from their red blood cells.””
————————–
i’m still looking around to see whether all H antigens are converted (generally/in essence) to either A, B or both in a person who has these antigens. if a person has both A & B are they equally expressed? i doubt that’s possible exactly. this quote from my post above is confusing, thus the question about how much of the H antigen is converted: “”The H antigen is produced by a specific fucosyltransferase. Depending upon a person’s ABO blood type, the H antigen is converted into either the A antigen, B antigen, or both. If a person has blood group O, the H antigen remains unmodified. Therefore, the H antigen is present in the highest amounts in blood type O and in the least amounts in blood type AB.””
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK2268/
Lesley’s post from Sept.’ 7th about Denisovans, Neanderthals & introgression really got me going research-wise. some interesting links:
Denny (hybrid hominin) – “”Denny (Denisovan 11) is a fossil from a girl who was at least 13 years old and lived some 90,000 years ago, shown to be an archaic human hybrid that was half Neanderthal and half Denisovan.”” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denny_(hybrid_hominin)#cite_note-NS-20180822-4
Prehistoric girl had parents belonging to different human species – – Humans – 22 August 2018 By Michael Marshall “”Her DNA was almost 50:50 Neanderthal and Denisovan”” …. ““Neanderthals and Denisovans may not have become violently extinct, but may have become absorbed into modern human populations.””
https://www.newscientist.com/article/2177634-prehistoric-girl-had-parents-belonging-to-different-human-species/
Interbreeding between archaic and modern humans – https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interbreeding_between_archaic_and_modern_humans
World’s oldest Homo sapiens fossils found in Morocco – By Ann GibbonsJun. 7, 2017 “”The team doesn’t propose that the Jebel Irhoud people were directly ancestral to all the rest of us. Rather, they suggest that these ancient humans were part of a large, interbreeding population that spread across Africa when the Sahara was green about 300,000 to 330,000 years ago; they later evolved as a group toward modern humans. “H. sapiens evolution happened on a continental scale,” Gunz says.”” https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2017/06/world-s-oldest-homo-sapiens-fossils-found-morocco
Hominini https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hominini
Archaic humans
Neanderthal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neanderthal
Denisovan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denisovan
Vindija Cave https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vindija_Cave
Mezmaiskaya cave https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mezmaiskaya_cave
Spy Cave https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spy_Cave
Goyet Caves https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goyet_Caves
Denisova Cave https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denisova_Cave
Artificial Intelligence Study of Human Genome Finds Unknown Human Ancestor – By Brian Handwerk
smithsonianmag.com – February 8, 2019 – https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/artificial-intelligence-study-human-genome-finds-unknown-human-ancestor-species-180971436/
The ‘Ghosts’ of 2 Unknown Extinct Human Species Have Been Found in Modern DNA – MICHELLE STARR – 17 JULY 2019 – https://www.sciencealert.com/two-unknown-species-of-ancient-extinct-hominids-have-been-identified-in-modern-dna
can’t find a full copy of this research: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-020-2225-9
but, i found some who commented on it: Evolution Study Finds Icelandic Genomes Contain More Denisovan DNA Fragments Than Expected – Apr 22, 2020 – staff reporter https://www.genomeweb.com/genetic-research/evolution-study-finds-icelandic-genomes-contain-more-denisovan-dna-fragments#.X1wLh9Z7mt8 “”The unexpectedly large proportion of Denisovan DNA in the Icelandic genomes is likely explained by gene flow either into ancestors of the introgressing Neanderthals or directly into humans, the researchers said.”” … “””The researchers performed extensive simulations under different demographic and admixture models and found that the observed characteristics of Denisovan-like fragments in Icelanders were not compatible with a simple introgression from a Vindija-like group without that population having had prior admixture with a Denisovan-like group. They also theorized that there could have been direct admixture from a Denisovan-like group into the common ancestors of non-Africans before the main Neanderthal admixture event.”” … “”The team also studied the influence of archaic variants on the phenotypic diversity of contemporary humans by assessing 271 phenotypes. After several filtering and analysis steps, they found only five independent archaic variants that were likely to be a true source of phenotypic association.”” …”” “We show that a large part of an archaic genome can be mined from contemporary descendants of populations that were recipients of introgression around 50 to 60 thousand years ago,” the authors concluded. “The recovered archaic fragments are consistent with being descended from multiple archaic individuals, who belonged to an archaic population similar to the Vindija Neanderthal. However, the considerable proportion of archaic fragments that are closer to the Denisovan genome cannot be explained by incomplete lineage sorting. Rather, they require Denisovan introgression, either directly into humans or into Neanderthals who later mixed with humans, which must have occurred soon after they migrated out of Africa, because its signal is found in all contemporary non-African populations from the Simons Genome Diversity Project. This raises the possibility that there were Denisovan-like groups west of the Altai mountains, where such gene flow into humans must have occurred.” “”
Icelandic DNA jigsaw-puzzle brings new knowledge about Neanderthals – April 23, 2020 – Aarhus University https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/04/200423130427.htm
— “” Summary: An international team of researchers has put together a new image of Neanderthals based on the genes Neanderthals left in the DNA of modern humans when they had children with them about 50,000 years ago. The researchers found the new information by trawling the genomes of more than 27,000 Icelanders. Among other things, they discovered that Neanderthal children had older mothers and younger fathers than the Homo-Sapien children in Africa did at the time.”” … “” “Up to now, we believed that the Neanderthals modern people have had children with were “pure” Neanderthals. It’s true that researchers have found the remnants of a hybrid between Denisovans and Neanderthals in a cave in East Asia, but we have not known whether there were more of these hybrids and whether, thousands of years later, they had children with modern humans,” “” … “” “We have previously thought that many of the Neanderthal variants previously been found in modern human DNA were associated with an increased risk of diseases. However, our study shows that the human gene variants located directly beside the Neanderthal genes are better explanations for the risk. We have also found something that can only be explained by Neanderthal genes, but this doesn’t mean that much,” “”
john hawks weblog — Denisovan ancestors of the Iceland population – 25 Apr 2020 http://johnhawks.net/weblog/reviews/denisovans/iceland-denisova-ancestors-skov-2020.html
“” Ancient humans were like us in most ways. Nearly all their phenotypes overlapped with those of living populations. They were emphatically not subject to “total isolation”, they mixed repeatedly. How often did they mix? How important was that mixture to their evolution? Those questions take big samples to start to answer. “” … “” Skov and coworkers are able to identify the fine-scale similarities between haplotypes in the genomes of living people and in three high-coverage ancient genomes. In this case that includes the so-called Vindija and Altai Neanderthal genomes and the Denisova genome. “”
“” Finding Denisovan ancestry in western Eurasian samples is not a first-ever result, and similar small fractions of this ancestry have been found in other recent studies. Earlier this year, Anders Bergström and coworkers reviewed the variation found from whole-genome sequencing of many Human Genome Diversity Project samples, and quantified Denisovan-like haplotypes in many populations, including New Guinea populations. “” … “” In 2018, Sharon Browning and coworkers examined Denisovan ancestry in Eurasian populations and inferred two Denisovan source populations for introgressed haplotypes in most Asian populations. “” … “” According to the results, the Iceland population has something like 0.1 percent Denisovan-like ancestry across their genome. Skov and coworkers went to some effort to try to understand where this Denisovan component came from. “” … “” Denisovan ancestry may come from direct mixture of early modern people with a Denisovan group; or alternatively, Denisovan ancestry in Icelanders may have come indirectly from Denisovan mixture with Neanderthals that happened before early modern humans mixed with Neanderthals. “” … “” The two scenarios (direct versus indirect) do predict slightly different things about the Denisova-like haplotypes. If these all came indirectly into modern humans from a Neanderthal population after Denisovan-Neanderthal introgression, then recombination should have connected many of them directly to haplotypes that otherwise resemble Neanderthals, creating a recognizable pattern. “”
“” One thing that the study concludes for certain is that this Denisovan component of Iceland genomes does not come from incomplete lineage sorting alone. These are not ancient African genetic haplotypes that merely resemble Denisovans. They really did come from Denisovans at some stage of prehistory. “” … “” A second thing that is clear is that the Denisovan-like haplotypes in Icelanders do not come directly from the Denisovan population sampled at Denisova cave in the Denisova 3 high-cove rage genome. “” … “” “We find that the amount of derived variant sharing is compatible with a scenario where the introgressing Denisova splits from the sequenced Denisova around 300-350 kya.” “” … “” The extent of diversification within Denisovans that this would represent is as great as the greatest divergences among surviving modern human populations that survive today. “” … “” Jacobs and coworkers denoted these Denisovan-like groups as D2 and D1. They estimated that the D2 group diverged from the population ancestral to both Denisova 3 and D1 around 360,000 years ago, and D1 diverged from the Denisova 3 population around 280,000 years ago. These findings pointed to very deep population diversity within “Denisovans”, more in fact that is present among the most diverse modern human groups. “”
“” The 2018 work from Browning and coworkers established that today’s Asian populations have Denisovan ancestry from at least two “waves” of introgression. One of those, accounting for around a third of the Denisovan-like ancestry in East Asian people today, looks to have been genetically similar to the Denisova 3 genome. The other wave was genetically quite divergent from this Denisova-3-like population. “” … “” Browning and coworkers…They even found a trace of the Denisova-3-like wave in Finland. But they found only the divergent wave in South Asian populations, and they did not identify either Denisovan wave in European populations other than Finland, or in samples with Native American ancestry. “””
“” Meanwhile, southwest Asian Neanderthals also had a small component of D2 ancestry. They got this from introgression or gene flow with the South Asian D2 population. That gene flow was not small, it had to be something like 6 to 8 percent of the genome of the southwest Asian Neanderthal population. The out-of-Africa wave of modern humans then picked up a small fraction of this D2 ancestry when they mixed with the southwest Asian Neanderthals. That component provides the measurable Denisovan ancestry in most of today’s people, including Icelanders. “” … “” The observation by Browning and coworkers that South Asian peoples today have more detectable ancestry from the “divergent wave” of Denisovans than European or other groups is very interesting. Bergström and coworkers this year also found more evidence of Denisovan-like ancestry within their South Asian samples than in European samples. Meanwhile, those same samples showed more Neanderthal ancestry in European groups than in South Asian groups. “”
“” Much of what we know makes me expect to find more diversity among past peoples, not less. The divergence of the Denisovans from Neanderthals was definitely before 430,000 years ago, constrained by the fact that the Sima de los Huesos genomic samples are already on the Neanderthal population branch. According to estimates by Alan Rogers and coworkers, the Denisovan origin was likely soon after the stem Neanderthal-Denisovan common ancestors parted ways from sub-Saharan Africans, possibly close to 700,000 years ago (see my 2017 post, “How long ago did Neandertals and Denisovans part ways?”). “”
The Sima Hominins: An Ancient Human Cold Case — By Bridget Alex – September 9, 2019
https://www.discovermagazine.com/planet-earth/the-sima-hominins-an-ancient-human-cold-case
Sima de los Huesos Hominins Were Actually Early Neanderthals, Say Anthropologists –
Mar 15, 2016 by Enrico de Lazaro http://www.sci-news.com/othersciences/anthropology/sima-de-los-huesos-hominins-early-neanderthals-03703.html “” The Sima de los Huesos, or the Pit of Bones, is a cave site in Atapuerca Mountains, Spain, dated to around 430,000 years ago (Middle Pleistocene). It preserves a large collection of fossils attributed to an enigmatic species — the Sima de los Huesos hominin.”” … “” “A unique assemblage of 28 hominin individuals, found in Sima de los Huesos, has recently been dated to approximately 430,000 years ago,” explained Dr. Meyer and his colleagues from Spain, Canada, Germany and the United Kingdom. “” … “” “We recover nuclear DNA sequences from two specimens, which show that the Sima de los Huesos hominins were related to Neanderthals rather than to Denisovans, indicating that the population divergence between Neanderthals and Denisovans predates 430,000 years ago,” the scientists said. “” … “” “They are consistent with a rather early divergence of 550,000 to 750,000 years ago of the modern human lineage from archaic humans.” “”
[this post is related to my prior 2 posts]
john hawks weblog: How long ago did Neandertals and Denisovans part ways? – 15 Nov 2017 http://johnhawks.net/weblog/reviews/neandertals/neandertal-dna/rogers-neandertal-denisovan-origins-2017.html
“” According to Rogers, Bohlender, and Huff, the Neandertal-Denisovan colonization of Eurasia was a fast expansion and dispersal of a small founder population. It appears to have been an early Middle Pleistocene version of the later colonization of Eurasia by modern humans. “” … “” Nothing about interpreting ancient DNA is easy, and I don’t think our current “standard” approaches are adequate to capture the complexity of human prehistory. Most of these interpretations are attempts to fit a model to some statistical summary of the data. By showing that some combinations of parameters fit the data much better than others, it is sometimes possible to reject hypotheses about past populations. “”
“” Rogers, Bohlender, and Huff examined the pattern of shared derived mutations in four genomes: an African modern human, a Eurasian modern human, the high-coverage Altai Neandertal genome, and the Denisovan genome. These genomes share different mutations with each other: some are shared between the Neandertal and the Eurasian modern humans, some are shared between the Neandertal and Denisovan, some are shared by three different genomes, and so on. “”
“” Mostly, the mutations shared by Neandertals or Denisovans and modern humans come from the common origin of all these populations in Africa long before 500,000 years ago. “” … “” What is so interesting about Rogers, Bohlender, and Huff’s conclusions is that they find the separation time between Neandertals and Denisovans to be very close after the separation of the Neandertal-Denisovan ancestral population from ancestral Africans: “”
“” Rogers, Bohlender, and Huff place the common ancestry of the Neandertal-Denisovan branch and the African ancestors of modern humans at 744,000 years ago. They acknowledge that this estimate depends on assumptions about the mutation rate, and those assumptions leave a lot of possibility for error “”
— Hawks estimates 700,000 ya —
“” The most striking aspect of the population model described by Rogers, Bohlender, and Huff is that Neandertals and Denisovans divided into separate populations quite rapidly after their common origin. This conclusion contrasts with earlier thinking, which suggested a slow divergence of Neandertals and Denisovans from each other after their common origin. Rogers and colleagues also find that the effective population size of this ancestral Neandertal-Denisovan population was very small. “”
“” The Sima de los Huesos specimens show around 40 percent derived allele sharing with later Neandertals, in comparison to 70 percent or more derived allele sharing of later Neandertal specimens with each other. By contrast, the Sima de los Huesos specimens share only around 7-9 percent derived alleles with Denisovans—way less than they share with Neandertals, and reflecting a substantial shared history of drift between the Sima de los Huesos and later Neandertal samples. “”
“” Genetic structure within the ancient Neandertals makes a difference. The later Neandertal population had strong regional differences separating the Altai and other genetic samples. The Denisovan population also seems to have had strong regional structure, reflected in the differences between the present-day introgressed sequences and the Denisovan genome we have from the fossil record. “”
“” The value for Neandertal-Denisovan separation time reported by Rogers, Bohlender, and Huff is one possibility, placing this divergence almost as old as the initial separation of the Neandertal-Denisovan ancestral population from ancestral Africans. That means Neandertals have existed as a population for more than 700,000 years. Or, as Rogers, Bohlender, and Huff find in their singleton analysis, the Neandertal-Denisovan separation time might be as recent as 630,000 years ago. “”
Early history of Neanderthals and Denisovans — Alan R. Rogers, Ryan J. Bohlender, and Chad D. Huff
PNAS – September 12, 2017 https://www.pnas.org/content/114/37/9859
Neanderthals and Denisovans as biological invaders — John Hawks PNAS September 12, 2017 https://www.pnas.org/content/114/37/9761
[another study Lesley found]
Evolutionary and Medical Consequences of Archaic Introgression into Modern Human Genomes – Olga Dolgova and Oscar Lao – Genes (Basel).- Published online 2018 Jul 18 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6070777/#__ffn_sectitle
[anatomically modern humans (AMH]] “” It is currently known that AMH interbred with archaic hominins once they left the African continent. Modern non-African human genomes carry fragments of archaic origin. This review focuses on the fitness consequences of archaic interbreeding in current human populations. “”
“” During the last 30 years, the most accepted demographic scenario for explaining recent evolution of AMH has been the Out of Africa model (OOA). According to this model, AMH evolved in Africa around 100–200 thousand years ago (kya) in East Africa [2,3] and migrated to the rest of the world around 50–60 kya [4,5,6,7]. This widely accepted dating of Homo sapiens emergence was recently challenged by Hublin et al. [8], who found AMH fossils of 300 kya at Jebel Irhoud in Morocco [9]. Similarly, Herschkovitz et al. [10] described a H. sapiens maxilla of 177 to 194 kya in Misliya Cave, Israel. All these studies suggest that the members of the H. sapiens clade left Africa earlier than previously thought, probably in several waves of OOA migration at different stages of evolution. “”
“” DNA introgressed into modern humans from Denisovans is found mostly in Australo-Melanesians, which may account for up to 6% of Denisovan DNA in their genomes and, to a lesser extent, in South Asians [23] and East Asians [24]. These estimates are averages across the modern human genome. However, specific regions of the genome may have degrees of Neanderthal ancestry as high as 64% in Europeans and 62% in Asians. “”
“” Disproportionate roles for sex chromosomes in species differences and hybrid incompatibility constitutes a consistent pattern in speciation “” … “” Taking into account that there has been strong selection against archaic introgression among protein-coding genes [21,46,47], functional regions contributing to the uniqueness of some modern human traits could be identified if they are strongly depleted of archaic ancestry “” … “” Further evidence of the deleterious effect of Neanderthal introgression can be identified at the expression level. Analysis of gene expression of Neanderthal alleles in current individuals shows a significant downregulation in the testes and brain compared to other tissues “”
“” interbreeding between anatomically modern humans with archaic species could have facilitated adaptation to specific environments [56,57] (see Table S1). This evolutionary process could bring variants at a higher frequency than de novo mutations, providing linked blocks of sequence with multiple functional mutations, potentially including co-adapted alleles [58]. This process, known as adaptive introgression, has risen to prominence based on a series of high profile examples in human genomes “”
“” Genes involved in the variation of skin pigmentation and hair morphology (BNC2, MC1R) also show the signature of positive selection as the result of adaptation to diverse habitats with different degree of insolation (Table S1) [54,66,67]. Advantageous immune variants introduced into the modern human population from archaic genomes have substantially contributed in the present-day diversity of immune genes [56,68,69,70,71,72]. Since innate immunity genes have evolved under stronger purifying selection than the rest of the genome [73], this enrichment of introgressed alleles suggests the presence of strong positive selection at the immune system. “”
“” Despite the evidence that functional archaic alleles (non-synonymous and associated with expression) have decreased in frequency over the past 8500 years, four loci were identified where the archaic alleles associated with differential expression show large increases in frequency over time. Among these are introgressed alleles modifying expression of the OAS1/OAS2/OAS3 genes involved in innate immunity and whose tissue-specific effects suggest that they may be functionally relevant “”
“” All these studies clearly show that selection and archaic admixture affect substantially present-day inter-population differences in immune responses, at least in terms of transcriptional variability, supporting the notion that variation in gene expression has been an important vehicle for human adaptation [86]. Furthermore, it has been shown that the higher frequency archaic variants contribute significantly more to gene expression changes than lower frequency archaic variants. This suggests that at least some of the archaic alleles that modify gene expression may have been driven to higher frequencies in many human populations by positive selection, supporting the idea that changes in gene expression are likely to have important adaptive effects in humans “”
“” There is quite common evidence for widespread selection against introgression across the genome, but adaptive introgression may also be considered an important force driving adaptation of modern humans to new environments. “”
“” …our knowledge of the functional consequences of the introgressed variation is essentially based on populations with European ancestry. Informative data from other ethnic groups and sequencing additional samples from ancient hominins will further deepen our knowledge of the contribution of archaic hominins to the diversity of human traits and complex diseases. Furthermore, it will help to identify the functional changes that have contributed to human adaptation and survival over time. “”
my comments: seems there were both good and bad things that developed from AMH’s and Neanderthal’s mixing their genes over time & place. w/ more research being done in this area and others, maybe someone will find some evidence that begins to get us closer to where and when the Rh(D) negative gene deletion/mutation may have first occurred. this research seems to suggest that there’s often a beneficial/good reason for a mutation that takes hold and persists. some of the introgressive genetic changes are not helpful, some are and some apparently are having seemingly no affect. if scientists are able to determine that some Neanderthals were Rh+ as well as blood type O, well it seems reasonable to assume that someday they should be able to find older and older examples of the Rh negative gene expression…if they look for it.
just thought i’d add a little more about the OAS1 gene & such since i got into researching it:
OAS1
“” 2′-5′-oligoadenylate synthetase 1 is an enzyme that in humans is encoded by the OAS1 gene. “”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OAS1
————-
“” The OASs are a family of IFN- and virus-induced proteins. The human OAS family consists of four genes, OAS1 (p40/p46; the short form), OAS2 (p69/p71; the intermediate form), OAS3 (p100; the long form), and OASL (OAS-like protein; p59), which are located on chromosome 12. “” … “” OAS1 is the most well-studied member of the OAS family and plays an important role in resistance to flaviviruses, such as the West Nile virus and dengue virus (6, 7). Polymorphism at the OAS1 locus has also been implicated in susceptibility to enteroviruses and respiratory syncytial virus (8, 9). “”
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6443328/
————-
OAS1, OAS2 and OAS3 restrict intracellular M. tb replication and enhance cytokine secretion
Gina Leischinga, Victoria Colea, Aus T.Alib, Bienyameen Bakera – 2019.02.029
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1201971219300931
“” The 2′,5′ (OASs) are known as mediators of the antiviral response system through activation of the RNA cleavage pathway. “” … “” To date the 2′-5′-oligoadenylate synthetases (OAS), namely OAS1, OAS2 and OAS3 are known for their role in directly enhancing intracellular antiviral mechanisms. Their expression is induced following the release of type I interferons, where they function to polymerize ATP to 2′-5′-linked adenosine oligomers or 2-5A (pppA(2′p5′A)n) in the presence of dsRNA (viral origin) (Kristiansen et al., 2010). The 2–5As then activate the RNase L degradative pathway which functions to cleave the viral RNA and control the infection. “”
————-
Activation of RNase L is dependent on OAS3 expression during infection with diverse human viruses
https://www.pnas.org/content/113/8/2241
“” RNase L, an antiviral enzyme activated during infection, degrades viral and cellular RNAs, inhibits protein synthesis, and restricts the replication and spread of diverse viruses. RNase L activation depends on 2′,5′-oligoadenylates synthesized by different oligoadenylate synthetases (OASs), i.e., OAS1, OAS2, and OAS3. OASs are induced by interferon and are activated by viral dsRNA. “”
————-
Oligoadenylate synthase-like (OASL) proteins: dual functions and associations with diseases
https://www.nature.com/articles/emm2014110
“” One of the key antiviral factors induced by IFNs, 2′-5′ oligoadenylate synthase (OAS), is a well-known molecule that regulates the early phase of viral infection by degrading viral RNA in combination with RNase L, resulting in the inhibition of viral replication. “”
Wow. Great job Ken! That is really interesting about the 2 ghost species. I knew there was 1 but 2 is really fascinating. Thanks for finding the OAS1 info…. So if A and A-‘s are susceptible to West Nile, its safe to assume that they are not the advantageous “Wild Type” of OAS1(thats inherited from Denisovan/Neanderthal). One of the derived forms of it(p46 i think), is supposedly bad. And i believe one paper said if a person with the AA form of p46 was less healthy than someone with just 1 A form. I think that means blood type O is the Denisovan/Neanderthal original blood type, and generally better health wise. And it seems a derived form of OAS1, presumably blood type A, is now being posititively selected for…Im also assuming that the “wild type” wasn’t rh negative since it is independently susceptible to West Nile also…….The search continues.
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/artificial-intelligence-study-human-genome-finds-unknown-human-ancestor-species-180971436/ — “” The machine’s conclusion? An ancestor species is present in our lineage that we have yet to identify. “By far, the only models we tested that really are backed by the data are the ones having this ghost population introgression,” Bertranpetit says. “” …. “” The intriguing study and others like it may help redraw the map of how humans migrated and evolved though what appears to be an increasingly complicated ancient world in Eurasia and Oceania. “” …. “” “It’s certainly interesting and consistent with the emerging picture of a complex reticulated phylogeny in human evolution,” Iain Mathieson, a University of Pennsylvania population geneticist, says via email. “I’m not even sure it makes sense to talk about ‘introgression events’ when that seems to be the norm.” In fact, because only eight models were tested and many others could be possible, Mathieson adds that the new findings are “certainly a plausible scenario, but the reality is likely even more complex.” “”
————–
https://www.sciencealert.com/two-unknown-species-of-ancient-extinct-hominids-have-been-identified-in-modern-dna — “” After closely analysing the existing literature, Teixeira and his colleague biologist Alan Cooper have identified two such ‘ghost’ ancestors in modern DNA. The first, identified in Eurasian DNA with the help of artificial intelligence, was widely reported earlier this year. “” …. “” The second, however, was reported last year, a detail that flew under the radar in a larger paper: a mysterious, and inconclusive, genetic signature exclusively found in the population of Flores, Indonesia. It appears to be as divergent from modern human DNA as Neanderthal or Denisovan DNA is. “” …. “” The first unknown extinct hominin – named EH1 – was roughly genetically equidistant from Denisovans and Neanderthals. The ancestor of all Asian and Australo-Papuan populations bred with EH1, resulting in 2.6 to 3.4 percent shared EH1 ancestry. “” …. “” Evidence for EH2 – the extinct hominin that interbred with modern humans on Flores – is a little less clear. It only appears in short-statured people that live near Liang Bua Cave – where Homo floriensis was discovered. So it’s highly localised, and has somehow remained contained for the roughly 50,000 years since the two groups met (5 on the map). “‘
————–
the EH1 fragments are thought to have existed at least in & around the area of NW India/Pakistan, and likely show-up in those largely descended from the Neanderthal/Early-Ancient Modern Human line a little (to varying degrees) via perhaps some Denisovan introgression/mixing.
from my recent studies: i found the stories about “Denny”/Denny (hybrid hominin)] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denny_(hybrid_hominin) … Sima de los Huesos / Miguelón https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miguel%C3%B3n … World’s oldest Homo sapiens fossils found in Morocco https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2017/06/world-s-oldest-homo-sapiens-fossils-found-morocco … https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jebel_Irhoud … https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florisbad_Skull … https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archaic_humans …. and many of the caves studies that i wasn’t aware of most interesting. i guess [like my very strong interest in (Geology/Paleontology/Anthropology] i tend to generally enjoy theorizing and studying things that are more-or-less earthy & dead/petrified/fossilized/ancient/rockish/mineralized/heavy/hard/solid and such than just about anything else. that’s me- grounded – and generally preferring to look backwards – while finding ways to best live in the present / while planning for things to come.
Hmm. I wonder if thats a rh negative trait…Im totally obsessed with that stuff too and if I start talking about it to someone, I get excited and talk fast and then I realize I’m probably being a weirdo, so i have to calm myself down. Lol.
I have never heard about the Flores one but I’ve read about scientists insinuating a possibility of an archaic human still alive. I just thought it was pseudo science but maybe the decendents are what they were talking about…Did you hear about the one they found in the Philippines? And the one in Chinas Red Deer Cave? They don’t talk about those much.
On a side note, I’m pretty sure there was/is an undiscovered Native American campsite on my property..Awesome find Ken, thanks!
these interests are probably more common w/ Rh negs, and i certainly think they are more common among men (and certainly high T-count men)…which makes you even more unusual – but also more interesting imso. very cool stuff that is – you and your strong interests. let’s see if we’ve got this in common: Solutrean hypothesis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solutrean_hypothesis … Across Atlantic Ice: The Origin of America’s Clovis Culture — by Dennis J. Stanford & Bruce A. Bradley – Copyright Date: 2012 https://www.jstor.org/stable/10.1525/j.ctt1pnmqx
i have the book. bought it around 2014. i’ve read it thoroughly more than once and still have it. Dennis Stanford died last year: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dennis_Stanford … he produced some nice videos on this subject. this one is from 2008 and before his book: Dennis J. Stanford at Nobel Conference 44 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gpnv1jDvr5c … it covers his work and the book well. he made other presentations after his book was published, but i looked this vid over and i think both it’s quality and the points he makes should help you understand this subject and how important it actually is. i believe the hypothesis is true. my main questions (aside from wanting to investigate areas along the east coast of the US myself as well as parts of NY State i know well – again – and w/ much more knowledge now) is what became of these Europeans? did they die-out because the ocean level rose, cutting them off from where they came from?…did their food sources disappear and drastically change?…did new/newer waves of people from Asia overwhelm them as they continued to move westward across the Rockies and so on? i think the answer is yes to all of these questions. the main problem is most of the early eastern US coastal sites are under ocean water – the ocean level has risen maybe somewhere between 300-400 feet/120 meters…and the continental shelf along the east coast that was put under water by this melting ice can often extend off-shore 100 miles or more. plus, to my knowledge they haven’t found DNA evidence of these people yet…but it’s their lithic technology/culture (and how & when it evolved/changed) and the times/dates involved that make this evidently true. i posted about this subject a little here back around June of this year, but i couldn’t easily find my post. anyway Lesley, let me know what ya think on this subject when you have a strong opinion and/or thoughts on it. – thanks – this is one of my favorite things to think about or even go out in the field to investigate in my own neck-of-the-woods/patch of earth sort of…along w/ fossils or studying the formation of the Appalachians Mountain chain/island arcs and the gold that exists there & why…besides all the cool older places/sites in Europe to study.
I’ll definitely look into this..sounds interesting.. They are studying a perfectly preserved underwater forest in the Gulf Coast, under Alabama. Its dated to from 50-60,000 yrs old and im hoping they find fossils.
—side note; the women in my family have always been a bit different(all rh-). The region im from has clear gender roles but we don’t acknowledge them. Lol.
Alabama’s 60,000-year-old underwater forest spills its secrets in new documentary
Updated May 18, 2019; Posted Jun 25, 2017 https://www.al.com/news/mobile/2017/06/underwater_forest_discovered_alabama.html … The Underwater Forest — Jun 23, 2017 (27 mins 27 secs length) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKm0eRfFFfo&feature=youtu.be
very interest subject as well. from the article at the first link above: “” The forest appears to be a wholly unique relic of our planet’s past, the only known site where a coastal ice age forest this old has been preserved in place, with thousands of trees still rooted in the dirt they were growing millennia ago. “” … “” The scientists believe the forest was buried beneath the Gulf sediments for eons, until giant waves driven by Hurricane Ivan in 2004 uncovered it. Before it made landfall, Ivan raged through the Gulf as a Category 5 hurricane. Its winds pushed the largest waves ever measured, which were 98 feet tall when they passed over a cluster of government data buoys far offshore. “”
“” AL.com collected the first samples from the site, and has participated in every scientific mission to the site, beginning in 2012. “” … “” The scientists believe the trees were buried under layers of mud in an age when sea levels were suddenly on the rise. That mud protected the trees from decomposition because they sealed them away from the oxygen-rich Gulf water. Underwater, where there is no oxygen, there is no decomposition. “” … “” … the Underwater Forest date to an ice age 60,000 years ago, when sea levels were hundreds of feet lower, and the Earth was much cooler than it is today, with much of the water on the planet locked up in glaciers. “”
“” In this earlier ice age, when much of the water on Earth was locked up in glaciers, sea levels along the Gulf Coast were about 400 feet lower than they are today, and the Gulf shoreline was between 30 and 60 miles farther offshore than our modern beaches. “”
“” “The top meter of that core is just Holocene sand, like you sink your feet into at the beach. Then, the next meter is sand and marine clay. Then, all of a sudden, it transitions to peat. That’s the weirdest thing I’ve ever seen in an oceanic core like that, just perfectly preserved peat, that runs a half a meter down,” “”
“” In fact, the type of forest that Reese reconstructed is not found on the Gulf Coast at all today. Instead, the mix of species, with the dominant trees being cypress, alder and oak, fits with a rare forest type now found on the coasts of North and South Carolina called the Atlantic Coastal Plain Blackwater Levee/Bar Forest. “”
“” They are all matching up together over the course of 500 years,” Harley said. “They weren’t all alive 500 years, but all of those trees were alive at some point during that 500-year span. “” … “” The oldest tree among the samples was about 500 years old. During several exploratory trips made by AL.com before any scientists had visited the site, divers measured two trees that were 10ten feet in diameter, with a circumference of close to 30 feet. In other words, some of these ancient trees, growing in a forest eons before humans arrived, rivaled the redwoods in size. “”
————-
seems like hurricane Ivan from 2004 did some good things based on this finding. makes me think when other strong hurricanes move along the Gulf coast, perhaps the shorelines extending out to 30 or 50 miles should be scanned in case other important things from the past are revealed. the wood was very well preserved.
Ok so I looked into the Solutrean Hypothesis and it seems very likely to me. The oldest North American skulls found so far were very diverse. Out of the oldest 4, one of them resembled Europeans.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.livescience.com/amp/skulls-from-first-north-americans-diverse.html
—–I read about some mummies in New York that resembled Europeans. You might find this interesting:
https://www.legendsofamerica.com/duhare-irish-indians/
——While looking into this, i noticed that some scientists are against this theory because it is allegedly being used by white supremacists to claim land or something like that. I just wanna make it clear that I accept the Solutrean Hypothesis as possible based on factual details I have read and seen in pictures. I despise racism in all forms and would never support it. My grandfather is Irish and Choctaw, both of which were victims of colonialism. I also despise people that ignore facts and bury history…
——-Im not at all implying anything about you Ken. I just wanted to clear that up in case someone tries to associate my support of the Solutrean Hypothesis to any white supremacy.
interesting links, possibilities, ideas, facts & things that make a clear understanding/conception of early/some of the earliest American continental human populations stories much more complex. whether i comment on them or not, i do tend to look into all parts of your posts L.S.
there’s certainly something very wrong w/ a world, society, people & individuals that think, believe & act as if truth doesn’t matter – that one is not responsible just for for one’s own actions, but also those of perhaps all others (past-present & future) – that guilt-tripping–pushing–requiring–forcing is something acceptable, needed and/or somehow good & beneficial in any way…whether it’s the foundation of a religion, a political movement, or something that provides a possible cover or salve for one’s own self-hatred &/or disgust/dissatisfaction w/ living a life that one had no say/input/choice in it’s beginning/creation/start /// it isn’t – that beauty doesn’t exist and it’s all relative, it’s not (there are reasons for people/individuals valuing it highly & it’s continued discussion going forward – unless truth-full discussion about it is forcefully eliminated as human ideals die..it & they are important – unless the plan/idea is to make all hate everything possible about good human values & ideals so that there will be less resistance to humanity’s extinction/elimination) – that all are the same and thus equal or by definition ONE/1 in any way ever while alive or dead (all is/all are connected & related somehow, but since things exist – all are not one nor equal, but different w/ some variable spacing/distance between each), except under laws designed to make all “equal” somehow/someway by force-forcing-w/out there being any choice in the mater/issue/process/discussion??? and all the pain/suffering & wasted energy required attempting to do it. other suppressed human sphere problems from my pov: the forced-into-this-world birthing fact seems to help create psychopathy by natural extension – thus, freedom w/ responsibility is an advanced human state & still rare/uncommon in general…the planet/this planet is gay – that statement/claim of mine explains well what it takes to exist w/in it and create apparently all of the social structures/systems & many/most laws that now exist and shape/control much of human life. study the core of the largest institutions well and you will likely see what i typed is essentially true. since i’m about as non-gay spectrum-wise as any male i’m aware of now and alive, i know how these gay biased things affect me and do not suit me well at all (i really – don’t care – whether a male is gay/more gay than me or not or to what degree – since i really think it’s impossible to be “completely non-gay” spectrum-wise/as in the concept of “perfectly”/or absolutely which i believe-claim are impossible – just more so or less so to varying degrees – but given enough difference it matters as it does for me…nor do i really care about what race one identifies w/…MOSTLY i’m seeking to find people i have enough things in common w/ for me to have satisfying interactions w/ them and hopefully these interactions are good for these other also…again mostly, i interact w/ no one now by choice – i’m that different). in fact to be quite honest: these systems were designed/built/created to eliminate people like me. i’d say they’ve been quite successful & so have the others for whom such things also seemingly to me fit rather well. these last two things: divergent traits of enough humans from myself now are part of “the way-of-the-lie-must-die”/change claim i’ve made about humanity for the past decade – if humanity is to survive/thrive/flourish/satisfyingly for as along as is possible/desired/chooses etc…as always: i’m seeking more honesty/integrity/balance/understanding/choice/responsibility & such going forward. i’d like to see people become better not worse…imo it’s their choice. i’ve made mine & will likely make more still. seems to me the humanity killing machine/way-of-life is always being built/upgraded/going-on in the background, no matter what else human is occurring planet-wide…wars-chaos—whatever. once again: things are too math-minded for me…to left-brain hemisphere biased. i’d prefer to see more brain hemisphere balanced-usage occurring…then perhaps things like CVD19 and nuclear-war might not have become problems. idk – this is just some typings on things from me, my life & my pov…and fwiw: it’s a rather long exposition for this site, but maybe not for me/from me.
mutual/equal treatment under good human created laws, for agreed upon social systems is the best that can be hoped for — ignorance unfortunately fills the gaps — the insanity present in the human sphere believes such things including: might makes right – two wrongs make one right – there’s no such thing as: privacy/private property…goodness…destruction & creation are equal, wrong once again: it’s easier to destroy most things than it is to create them…forcing people to do things creates hell – individual choice w/ responsibility for one’s own actions is required for good & just social structures of any size…social organizations tend to be become more corrupt as they get larger, unless increased focus & effort is applied to ensure the integrity/quality of the organization/social system. as always: the systems/structures/laws/beliefs/actions, and all else w/ a human component, are only as good/durable/satisfying/worthwhile/productive/creative/healthy/beneficial as the people/individuals that constitute them by choice, not by force. each comes into this world by force, w/out any choice in the matter…at some point, if one is able, one must be allowed to do/live/be/create things & such for one’s own self & be allowed to be/become accountable for one’s own actions/works & so on – and not be forced to carry anyone one else in any way unless one chooses to do so and another accepts the help. things are screwy…unbalanced…forced…not truth-filled…and from my point of view not nearly as satisfying as they could be/as is possible…often times because so many are seemingly working so hard to FORCE others to do things et cetera.
i see and treat people as the unique for all-time individuals that they actually are, but i also judge them based on their goodness/character/integrity. for me: what one does while alive & conscious, in this world, matters .… i see beauty, physical strength, intelligence, creativity and the overall quality of another’s actions/character when i interact w/ that person. i have no need to forget what happens/what other’s or i do/have done. people & i certainly do make mistakes (no one is perfect/nor has anyone ever has been perfect – that’s not the way things work – but it’s still important to be guided by and to seek to become a closer approximation of/get closer to Human Ideals) … i’m trying to learn as i go // as i live and seek to live a satisfying life – my own way – in a way best suited to what i am // in a way that suits me best as the unique individual i am. from these things i act accordingly & live my life as well as i can/am able. differences make a difference (usually), and i’m usually curious about the significance/meaning & such of the variance. by considering such things: knowledge-learning & understanding are possible. i’ve long-ago outgrown & given-up-on/thrown-off/seen & reasoned through all the un-earned guilt that so many other humans have tried to saddle & burden me w/ since i became alive and conscious on this planet – just for being born and what i am. – success to those and that which are good. – best wishes to the Rh(D) negs who come here & those who perhaps have the homozygous or heterozygous CCR5-delta32 mutation (which i’m apparently homozygous for based on 2 failed smallpox shots w/out “takes” from my age of 1 1/2-2 yrs). both of these mutations have seemed to cause me problems interacting w/ others – along w/ my: high-T count levels, lefty-biased ambidexterity, very early very high iq self-assessed potential/based on facts (something now being reached i think & acknowledged by others around me once again finally)…and as always, my own valuing system :: my organic-way-of-Life-theory/formula and my very strong fondness for those and that which are good.
It always amazes me when I read comments here and realize just how much alike we all are (most of us anyway). Its always a pretty lonely life. I always thought I was a total weirdo until I met another rh-, finally in my 30s…Your comment about being born by force, possibly contributing to psychopathy is something I need to think about. I’ve met other rh-‘s before but I didn’t know it, because they were sociopaths or at very least, extreme narcissists. They dont give off any rh- vibes to me at all. I can definitely tell they should be avoided but im curious as to how they can effectively “turn off” the rh- wavelength. Social/familial factors and/or mental illness is my guess but the forced to be born idea is something to consider….Also I read a study a couple of weeks ago (I cant remember where), that pretty much said 90% of men have had gay thoughts at some point in their life and its totally normal….seems you might be right on that one too…I dont know why humans create such dominance and division. 1 single gene switch in some female hornet/wasp thing, in a cave, made them grow….. “an extra limb”…..and use it on the males…I think thats the 1st time scientists documented a switch like that. But anyway, I dont know if you can see my email or not, but if so feel free to email me for more weird discussions if you want.
make a post that Mike has to approve, w/ the email you want me to use and then let me know in a post (w/ more in it than just your acknowledgement of this being done) – and i will log-in and write down the address. assume Mike will remove it in a few days – that i will contact you w/in a day – and that i will make a comment here somewhere, which generally means i’ve viewed this site and should have your address at that point. other women i get along well w/ here can try this also, but create a good relevant Rh neg post first, get my attention and ask if such can be done. i suggest giving Mike a donation here once in a while as well.